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need spring-energy-storage mechanism



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 29th 07, 10:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
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Posts: 6
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.

Ads
  #2  
Old May 29th 07, 12:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
Sue...
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Posts: 3
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

On May 29, 6:53 am, wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.


I have been thinking along the same lines.
Compressed air or chemical batteries appear to be real
loosers due to the heat loss.

Mechanical springs or flywheels would seem to offer a lot
more efficiency. Flywheels have to be heavy
or fast. Neither characteristic is very attractive for a vehicle.

1) How hot does the spring get when it is cycled?
2) How many times can the spring be cycled 'till fatigue
diminishes its capacity?

With that information, it should be easy to compare the
energy density with other mechanisms.

A few haphazard google searches hasn't offered up the answers
to those questions in the manner to which I become accustomed
so I may have to dust off some old texts like "How to do
research" or "Real work as a moral virtue" :-)


Sue...


  #3  
Old May 29th 07, 12:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
Ron Hardin
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Posts: 145
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

Use a blimp.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
  #5  
Old May 29th 07, 12:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
Sue...
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Posts: 3
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

On May 29, 8:19 am, Ron Hardin wrote:
Use a blimp.


That seems commercially feasible for the logging
industry but only a few bicycle sheds will accomodate
a blimp without knocking out a few walls.

Sue...

--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.



  #6  
Old May 29th 07, 12:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.engr.mech
Sue...
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Posts: 3
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

On May 29, 8:28 am, Greg Locock wrote:
wrote in news:1180432406.155025.128400
@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?


the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.


A Flying fox. Used in Italy to get supplies to and from mountain tops.

Two cables, one pulley, two carriers and a long bit of rope.


Fantastic! Throw a few clothes-pins in the package
and it is also a clothes dryer for sweaty cycle shorts.

Sue...


  #8  
Old May 29th 07, 01:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
Trevor Jones
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Posts: 4
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

wrote:

i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.


Gasoline motor.

Nobody's yet found an effective way to store as much energy as that,
in as little weight. Commercially available, cheap, practical.

Any other system is going to cost you more in time, money, and weight,
than it will ever repay in work done, otherwise the world would be
well equipped with just such devices.

Anything that recovers energy on the down trip will cost more to carry
back up.

If time spent should be cost effective, you are already over budget
for the time spent considering such foolishness.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

  #9  
Old May 29th 07, 02:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
default
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Posts: 12
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

On 29 May 2007 02:53:26 -0700, wrote:

i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.


A trailer would be trying to pass the bicycle on the way down if you
are winding a spring - regenerative braking style.

Probably too high tech for low value goods on mountain tops . . . but
there are several experimenter's using something called
ultracapacitors for energy storage on bicycles. This idea has been
around since the first ultra caps hit the market.

http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/GL...02-211792.html

NASA note with link to 32 page brief

Excerpt:
The E-Bike is a state of the art, ground up, hybrid electric bicycle.
Unique features of the vehicle's power system include the use of an
efficient, 400 watt, electric hub motor and a 7-speed derailleur
system that permits operation as fully electric, fully pedal, or a
combination of the two. Other innovative features, such as
regenerative braking through ultracapacitor energy storage, are
planned. Regenerative braking recovers much of the kinetic energy of
the vehicle during deceleration. The E-bike has previously been tested
with the standard battery energy storage system, a symmetric
ultracapacitor energy storage system, and a combination battery and
symmetric ultracapacitor energy storage system. The focus of this
report is the test results of the E-bike with asymmetric
ultracapacitor energy storage and comparison to the other energy
storage systems. The report concludes that the E-Bike provides
excellent performance and that the implementation of asymmetric
ultracapacitors in the power system can provide significant
performance improvements.

Search on bicycle and ultracapacitor - there's more info on the web
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  #10  
Old May 29th 07, 02:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,sci.physics,sci.engr.mech,sci.electronics.design,alt.horology
default
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Posts: 12
Default need spring-energy-storage mechanism

On 29 May 2007 02:53:26 -0700, wrote:

i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.


A cable system with pulleys top and bottom. Two or more cargo
carrying buckets. Weight of full bucket pulls cargo down and takes
empty bucket up.

If the cargo can't be suspended over the ground, you could still add
wheels to the buckets to let them roll over the high points.

You still have to get people up there to fill buckets - unless you can
get the bats to deposit the guano into the bucket (just kidding).

Perhaps the worker could ride an empty bucket up and just take a taut
cable to ride down (McGuiver style) when his shift is over.

Lot less hassle than bicycles and springs. Low tech with commonly
available parts.
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