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Flat repair



 
 
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  #161  
Old August 20th 18, 04:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,295
Default Flat repair

On Sunday, August 19, 2018 at 2:30:07 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/17/2018 12:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 11:54:40 AM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/16/2018 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/16/2018 11:35 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
**** or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
*** www.yellowjersey.org/
*** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to
the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires
had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they
are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That
would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not..

Lou

But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop
was main
argument for using tubeless.

Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so
you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or
comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or
MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on
the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces
or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the
tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou

Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self
sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.

Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff
and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't
think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by
default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a
problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35
mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure
for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike
but without the goop.

Lou

I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats.

It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for
pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do
you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires?

It is a little
optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you
smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds.

I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust
for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This
applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes
tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem.

+1

I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule
someones choice."* That is demonstrably untrue.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


ouch.
Can we just stay with cycling?
http://i.pinimg.com/236x/ca/ed/69/ca...2029075847.jpg

I'm astonished at the ubiquity and staying power of that image; I think
we've all seen it dozens of times on the interwebs. I doubt the guy had
any clue how famous he'd become.

Mark J.


It's so sad -- that's Fabio Baldato, who just couldn't lay off the cannolis after his retirement. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...8DaTqmF_u-F6O7 How quickly they fall. Next thing you know, he'll get busted with Jan Ulrich for smacking hookers.

-- Jay Beattie.


OMG, please tell me you're joking. I'm irony impaired and can't tell
anymore.

I am. I think Baldato still looks pretty fit.

-- Jay Beattie.
Ads
  #162  
Old August 20th 18, 04:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,295
Default Flat repair

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 8:03:40 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 11:14:13 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.

Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?

I found a small copper wire in tire.

Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?

Thanks


I posted three or four messages yesterday about SMS's ridiculous postings.. I got emails saying that my messages weren't posted. I found that interesting since I didn't cuss him out or anything - I only posted youtube proof that even racing teams are changing to tubeless tires. That you can't get a flat on a road tubeless unless you totally destroy the tire which would render a tube tire useless as well. One of those videos even showed that rolling resistance went down with reductions of pressure as the pavement gets progressively bumpier. Oh well, I suppose sms can use his 20 mm tires at 8 bar on his commuter.


Uh, remember buying that new set of tubeless ready wheels? SMS is not going to rush out to buy a new set of wheels to upgrade to an expensive new standard for probably imperceptible benefits, unless he has a big problem with flats. I mean really . . .$28 just for valves? https://tinyurl.com/yay7xos5 And the tires are grossly over-priced too, with no discount market yet. I was talking to my son this morning about getting some tubeless tires on pro deal, and his response was "O.K., but why?" My explanation was, "hey, I just wanted to try them on my tubeless ready rims." My Pro4s and a light tube work fine, and they were cheap, but if I can get a tire deal, I'll give it a whirl. My son gets a killer deal on Conti, but alas, they don't make a tubeless road tire and neither does Michelin. I'll have to leaf through the QBP catalog.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #163  
Old August 20th 18, 07:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 148
Default Flat repair

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 8:52:25 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 8:03:40 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 11:14:13 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.

Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?

I found a small copper wire in tire.

Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?

Thanks


I posted three or four messages yesterday about SMS's ridiculous postings. I got emails saying that my messages weren't posted. I found that interesting since I didn't cuss him out or anything - I only posted youtube proof that even racing teams are changing to tubeless tires. That you can't get a flat on a road tubeless unless you totally destroy the tire which would render a tube tire useless as well. One of those videos even showed that rolling resistance went down with reductions of pressure as the pavement gets progressively bumpier. Oh well, I suppose sms can use his 20 mm tires at 8 bar on his commuter.


Uh, remember buying that new set of tubeless ready wheels? SMS is not going to rush out to buy a new set of wheels to upgrade to an expensive new standard for probably imperceptible benefits, unless he has a big problem with flats. I mean really . . .$28 just for valves? https://tinyurl.com/yay7xos5 And the tires are grossly over-priced too, with no discount market yet.. I was talking to my son this morning about getting some tubeless tires on pro deal, and his response was "O.K., but why?" My explanation was, "hey, I just wanted to try them on my tubeless ready rims." My Pro4s and a light tube work fine, and they were cheap, but if I can get a tire deal, I'll give it a whirl. My son gets a killer deal on Conti, but alas, they don't make a tubeless road tire and neither does Michelin. I'll have to leaf through the QBP catalog.

-- Jay Beattie.


I completely agree with you but I build new bikes often enough that it is something to plan for on a new build. I just think that it is pointless to argue that they don't do what all the tests show they accomplish.
  #164  
Old August 20th 18, 08:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,299
Default Flat repair

On 8/20/2018 8:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Uh, remember buying that new set of tubeless ready wheels? SMS is not going to rush out to buy a new set of wheels to upgrade to an expensive new standard for probably imperceptible benefits, unless he has a big problem with flats.


Significant disadvantages, significant expense, and no perceptible
benefits, are why tubeless hasn't taken off.

If tiny punctures were a problem I could buy some Slime tubes, or put
Slime into existing tubes.

  #166  
Old August 21st 18, 12:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 459
Default Flat repair

On 8/20/2018 8:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 19, 2018 at 2:30:07 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/17/2018 12:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 11:54:40 AM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/16/2018 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/16/2018 11:35 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
**** or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
*** www.yellowjersey.org/
*** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to
the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires
had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they
are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That
would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou

But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop
was main
argument for using tubeless.

Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so
you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or
comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or
MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on
the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces
or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the
tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou

Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self
sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.

Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff
and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't
think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by
default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a
problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35
mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure
for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike
but without the goop.

Lou

I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats.

It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for
pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do
you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires?

It is a little
optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you
smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds.

I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust
for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This
applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes
tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem.

+1

I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule
someones choice."* That is demonstrably untrue.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.


ouch.
Can we just stay with cycling?
http://i.pinimg.com/236x/ca/ed/69/ca...2029075847.jpg

I'm astonished at the ubiquity and staying power of that image; I think
we've all seen it dozens of times on the interwebs. I doubt the guy had
any clue how famous he'd become.

Mark J.

It's so sad -- that's Fabio Baldato, who just couldn't lay off the cannolis after his retirement. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...8DaTqmF_u-F6O7 How quickly they fall. Next thing you know, he'll get busted with Jan Ulrich for smacking hookers.

-- Jay Beattie.


OMG, please tell me you're joking. I'm irony impaired and can't tell
anymore.

I am. I think Baldato still looks pretty fit.

-- Jay Beattie.


Thanks. It was pretty crazy, but remember what Eddy looked like just a
few years after retirement? He seems to have moderated some since then.
Good for him.

Mark J.


 




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