Lightning Cycle Dynamics P-38

Ed Dolan wrote:

JimmyMac was probably stupid enough purchase a Lightning P-38, even though
it was not a very good recumbent. He thought he would be fast on it. So much
for forlorn hopes!

While there are some things on the P-38 that should have been better
sorted out [1], it is likely the fastest unfaired bike with an UPRIGHT
seating position. The very closed position created by the high BB and
upright seat is good for climbing and sprinting, though a bike with a
high bottom bracket and laid back seat will be considerably faster on
the flats. The P-38 would be a good choice for urban riding [2], since
the upright position allows the rider to keep track of traffic in
addition to accelerating well, or for a ride with a lot of climbing
relative to flat areas (particularly those exposed to wind).

[1] And LCD really needs to offer a narrower seat for those who do not
have wide pelvises and shoulders.
[2] As long a fork that can take a reasonably wide ( 28-mm) front tire
is used, unless the rider is very light.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Ed Dolan wrote:

JimmyMac was probably stupid enough purchase a Lightning P-38, even
though it was not a very good recumbent. He thought he would be fast on
it. So much for forlorn hopes!

While there are some things on the P-38 that should have been better
sorted out [1], it is likely the fastest unfaired bike with an UPRIGHT
seating position. The very closed position created by the high BB and
upright seat is good for climbing and sprinting, though a bike with a high
bottom bracket and laid back seat will be considerably faster on the
flats. The P-38 would be a good choice for urban riding [2], since the
upright position allows the rider to keep track of traffic in addition to
accelerating well, or for a ride with a lot of climbing relative to flat
areas (particularly those exposed to wind).

[1] And LCD really needs to offer a narrower seat for those who do not
have wide pelvises and shoulders.
[2] As long a fork that can take a reasonably wide ( 28-mm) front tire is
used, unless the rider is very light.

I just about bought one of these contraptions myself many years ago, but I
got so much static from the manufacturer that we ended up telling one
another to go to Hell! My relationships with folks who sell things do not
always go smoothly. They seem to want to rob me and I do not want to be
robbed. I usually end up telling them to keep their product and I will keep
my money. At least that way, I end up happy and have avoided buying a lot of
junk over the years.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Ed Dolan wrote:

JimmyMac was probably stupid enough purchase a Lightning P-38, even
though it was not a very good recumbent. He thought he would be fast on
it. So much for forlorn hopes!
While there are some things on the P-38 that should have been better
sorted out [1], it is likely the fastest unfaired bike with an UPRIGHT
seating position. The very closed position created by the high BB and
upright seat is good for climbing and sprinting, though a bike with a high
bottom bracket and laid back seat will be considerably faster on the
flats. The P-38 would be a good choice for urban riding [2], since the
upright position allows the rider to keep track of traffic in addition to
accelerating well, or for a ride with a lot of climbing relative to flat
areas (particularly those exposed to wind).

[1] And LCD really needs to offer a narrower seat for those who do not
have wide pelvises and shoulders.
[2] As long a fork that can take a reasonably wide ( 28-mm) front tire is
used, unless the rider is very light.

I just about bought one of these contraptions myself many years ago, but I
got so much static from the manufacturer that we ended up telling one
another to go to Hell! My relationships with folks who sell things do not
always go smoothly. They seem to want to rob me and I do not want to be
robbed. I usually end up telling them to keep their product and I will keep
my money. At least that way, I end up happy and have avoided buying a lot of
junk over the years.

Well, I have heard several stories of LCD customer service being less
than satisfactory.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Dec 1, 9:13*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Ed Dolan wrote:
JimmyMac was probably stupid enough purchase a Lightning P-38, even though
it was not a very good recumbent. He thought he would be fast on it. So much
for forlorn hopes!

Well this is interesting. Ed pretends to be hazarding a guess when he
know perfectly well that I own a Lightning P-38. Now as for the rest,
well the purveyor of disinformation is trash talking without any basis
in fact. I know. I know ... nothing new about any of that. Dolan
has often indicated that he has utmost respect for Tom Sherman's
knowledge about recumbents; and, as Tom points out, the P-38 has much
to recommend it. As for not being fast. not everyone is an old, fat
slow rider like Dolan. Forlorn hopes would aptly describe Dolan's
hopes of ever holding my wheel. The fastest I have hit in a flat,
without wind at my back, was 33.5 mph, but anything approaching 30 mph
is a very serious effort. I am about 3 mph slower on the recumbent
than I am on my upright. I now ride my upright much more than my
recumbent. I guess I'm still more of an upright rider although I do
enjoy riding the recumbent.

While there are some things on the P-38 that should have been better
sorted out [1], it is likely the fastest unfaired bike with an UPRIGHT
seating position. The very closed position created by the high BB and
upright seat is good for climbing and sprinting, though a bike with a
high bottom bracket and laid back seat will be considerably faster on
the flats. The P-38 would be a good choice for urban riding [2], since
the upright position allows the rider to keep track of traffic in
addition to accelerating well, or for a ride with a lot of climbing
relative to flat areas (particularly those exposed to wind).

[1] And LCD really needs to offer a narrower seat for those who do not
have wide pelvises and shoulders.
[2] As long a fork that can take a reasonably wide ( 28-mm) front tire
is used, unless the rider is very light.

Tom ... a fiar enugh assessment, although I find riding into a stiff
headwind to be difficult in such an upright seating position II
quirte agree about the front wheel. It didnt' tke me long to dump the
small 349mm/16in for a larger 406mm/20in. Retro fitted with a
Ballistic BMX suspension fork and running wider tires proved to be a
good combination.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Dec 2, 12:10*pm, JimmyMac wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:13*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:

Ed Dolan wrote:
JimmyMac was probably stupid enough purchase a Lightning P-38, even though
it was not a very good recumbent. He thought he would be fast on it. So much
for forlorn hopes!

Well this is interesting. *Ed pretends to be hazarding a guess when he
know perfectly well that I own a Lightning P-38. *Now as for the rest,
well the purveyor of disinformation is trash talking without any basis
in fact. *I know. *I know ... nothing new about any of that. *Dolan
has often indicated that he has utmost respect for Tom Sherman's
knowledge about recumbents; and, as Tom points out, the P-38 has much
to recommend it. *As for not being fast. not everyone is an old, fat
slow rider like Dolan. *Forlorn hopes would aptly describe Dolan's
hopes of ever holding my wheel. *The fastest I have hit in a flat,
without wind at my back, was 33.5 mph, but anything approaching 30 mph
is a very serious effort. *I am about 3 mph slower on the recumbent
than I am on my upright. *I now ride my upright much more than my
recumbent. *I guess I'm still more of an upright rider although I do
enjoy riding the recumbent.

While there are some things on the P-38 that should have been better
sorted out [1], it is likely the fastest unfaired bike with an UPRIGHT
seating position. The very closed position created by the high BB and
upright seat is good for climbing and sprinting, though a bike with a
high bottom bracket and laid back seat will be considerably faster on
the flats. The P-38 would be a good choice for urban riding [2], since
the upright position allows the rider to keep track of traffic in
addition to accelerating well, or for a ride with a lot of climbing
relative to flat areas (particularly those exposed to wind).

[1] And LCD really needs to offer a narrower seat for those who do not
have wide pelvises and shoulders.
[2] As long a fork that can take a reasonably wide ( 28-mm) front tire
is used, unless the rider is very light.

Tom ... a fiar enugh assessment, although I find riding into a stiff
headwind to be difficult in such an upright seating position *II
quirte agree about the front wheel. *It didnt' tke me long to dump the
small 349mm/16in for a larger 406mm/20in. *Retro fitted with a
Ballistic BMX suspension fork and running wider tires proved to be a
good combination.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

Tom ... meant "fair enough", "didn't take", "quite", etc. ... just
can't type

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
[...]
Tom ... a fair enough assessment, although I find riding into a stiff
headwind to be difficult in such an upright seating position. I
quite agree about the front wheel. It didn't take me long to dump the
small 349mm/16in for a larger 406mm/20in. Retro fitted with a
Ballistic BMX suspension fork and running wider tires proved to be a
good combination.

Your seating position on the P-38 is not much of an improvement over your
seating position on an upright. They are both uncomfortable in the extreme.
All a larger front wheel does is raise the bottom bracket, thereby insuring
foot numbness. Finally, speed isn't everything on any kind of a bike.
Comfort counts for far more since it means you will be able to ride longer
and further.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Dec 2, 2:32*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
[...]

Tom ... a fair enough assessment, although I find riding into a stiff
headwind to be difficult in such an upright seating position. I
quite agree about the front wheel. It didn't take me long to dump the
small 349mm/16in for a larger 406mm/20in. Retro fitted with a
Ballistic BMX suspension fork and running wider tires proved to be a
good combination.

Your seating position on the P-38 is not much of an improvement over your
seating position on an upright.

You of course meant to qaulify that with ... MY OPINION.

They are both uncomfortable in the extreme.

More unqualified opinion state as fact? I ride 5000-7000 miles a year
in a 7-8 month riding season, but not in extreme discomfort??? If I
found my riding position to be uncomfortable in the extreme, I
wouldn't do that much riding. You know nothing about my upright which
is a comfortable bike. As for my recumbent, I replaced the seat chord
with electrical ties and replaced the original foam (closed cell I
think) pad with a self-inflating open cell foam pad that I top off
with a bit more air. This combination makes for a very comfortable
seat.

All a larger front wheel does is raise the bottom bracket, thereby insuring foot numbness.

You of course meant to qualify that with ... MY OPINION. ALL, you
assert??? What a larger front wheel also does is negotiate potholes
better and provide a more comfortable ride on tires that will last
longer among other things, but you seem to know it all so why should I
continue to preach to the choir. INSURING NUMBNESS??? Perhaps I
should contact Lightning Cycle Dynamics and pitch a bitch then as I
have been deprived of an experience that I apparently paid for but
have missed out on. Maybe you are confusing bottom bracket height
with that cheap rotgut red wine you drink as the cause of your foot
numbness which appears now to have progressed to your head.

Finally, speed isn't everything on any kind of a bike.
Comfort counts for far more since it means you will be able to ride longer
and further.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but you intorduced the topic of speed
when, in reference to my P-38, you emphatically, but incorrectly,
asserted of me ... He thought he would be fast on it. I never
contended that speed is everything on a bike, if that is what you're
implying. I merely pointed out that I am capable of generating what
you are not ... speed, if an when I so desire to. I agree that
comfort is very important and you left out another ... safety. As far
as riding longer and further is concerned ... at age 50, I rode my
upright quite comfortably on an organized century (100 miler) in 4
hours 43 minutes, averaging 21 mph, so one can ride long and far
without having to suffer discomfort and one can do so at a fast pace
provided the body is acclimated to the riding position and one has a
fit "engine". Comfort in and of itself is no guarantee that one will
be able to ride longer and/or further.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Dec 2, 2:32 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
[...]

Tom ... a fair enough assessment, although I find riding into a stiff
headwind to be difficult in such an upright seating position. I
quite agree about the front wheel. It didn't take me long to dump the
small 349mm/16in for a larger 406mm/20in. Retro fitted with a
Ballistic BMX suspension fork and running wider tires proved to be a
good combination.

Your seating position on the P-38 is not much of an improvement over your
seating position on an upright.

You of course meant to qaulify that with ... MY OPINION.

This newsgroup is fortunate indeed to have an opinion from One so Great as
Myself! I ought to be charging a hefty fee for it.

They are both uncomfortable in the extreme.

More unqualified opinion state as fact? I ride 5000-7000 miles a year
in a 7-8 month riding season, but not in extreme discomfort??? If I
found my riding position to be uncomfortable in the extreme, I
wouldn't do that much riding. You know nothing about my upright which
is a comfortable bike. As for my recumbent, I replaced the seat chord
with electrical ties and replaced the original foam (closed cell I
think) pad with a self-inflating open cell foam pad that I top off
with a bit more air. This combination makes for a very comfortable
seat.

No way anyone can be comfortable sitting in an upright position. After a few
hours, your backside will ache.

All a larger front wheel does is raise the bottom bracket, thereby
insuring foot numbness.

You of course meant to qualify that with ... MY OPINION. ALL, you
assert??? What a larger front wheel also does is negotiate potholes
better and provide a more comfortable ride on tires that will last
longer among other things, but you seem to know it all so why should I
continue to preach to the choir. INSURING NUMBNESS??? Perhaps I
should contact Lightning Cycle Dynamics and pitch a bitch then as I
have been deprived of an experience that I apparently paid for but
have missed out on. Maybe you are confusing bottom bracket height
with that cheap rotgut red wine you drink as the cause of your foot
numbness which appears now to have progressed to your head.

About 25% of all cyclists will experience foot numbness if the bottom
bracket is too high.

Finally, speed isn't everything on any kind of a bike.
Comfort counts for far more since it means you will be able to ride longer
and further.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but you intorduced the topic of speed
when, in reference to my P-38, you emphatically, but incorrectly,
asserted of me ... He thought he would be fast on it. I never
contended that speed is everything on a bike, if that is what you're
implying. I merely pointed out that I am capable of generating what
you are not ... speed, if an when I so desire to. I agree that
comfort is very important and you left out another ... safety. As far
as riding longer and further is concerned ... at age 50, I rode my
upright quite comfortably on an organized century (100 miler) in 4
hours 43 minutes, averaging 21 mph, so one can ride long and far
without having to suffer discomfort and one can do so at a fast pace
provided the body is acclimated to the riding position and one has a
fit "engine". Comfort in and of itself is no guarantee that one will
be able to ride longer and/or further.

Folks got the the P-38 because they thought they would be fast on it. The
fact is that you will not be all that fast on it and you will be enormously
more uncomfortable on it than you would on properly laid back seat with a
medium height bottom bracket. But Lightning Cycles never got anything right
in its entire life. Furthermore, the Asian bitch that communicated with
prospective buyers was too dumb to be believed.

Finally, you can ride a bike all day and all night if you are comfortable on
it. Anyone who cannot do this has missed the boat. They have sacrificed
comfort for speed, never a good tradeoff.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

JimmyMac aka Jim McNamara wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:13 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
[...]The P-38 would be a good choice for urban riding [2], since
the upright position allows the rider to keep track of traffic in
addition to accelerating well, or for a ride with a lot of climbing
relative to flat areas (particularly those exposed to wind).

[1] And LCD really needs to offer a narrower seat for those who do not
have wide pelvises and shoulders.
[2] As long a fork that can take a reasonably wide ( 28-mm) front tire
is used, unless the rider is very light.

Tom ... a fiar enugh assessment, although I find riding into a stiff
headwind to be difficult in such an upright seating position

Jim misunderstands here - I was contending that the P-38 would be a good
bicycle for a place like SW Wisconsin where there is a lot of climbing,
but the trees and valley protect the rider from the wind.

I
quirte agree about the front wheel. It didnt' tke me long to dump the
small 349mm/16in for a larger 406mm/20in. Retro fitted with a
Ballistic BMX suspension fork and running wider tires proved to be a
good combination.

The tires available for the ISO 349-mm size, such as the 32-349 Primo
Comet are really not suitable for an average weight adult, and should
only be used by shorter stature riders that need the small front wheel.
Similarly, the LCD fork that only accepts narrow tires should be avoided
by all but light riders on smooth roads.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Folks got the the P-38 because they thought they would be fast on it. The
fact is that you will not be all that fast on it and you will be enormously
more uncomfortable on it than you would on properly laid back seat with a
medium height bottom bracket. But Lightning Cycles never got anything right
in its entire life. Furthermore, the Asian bitch that communicated with
prospective buyers was too dumb to be believed.[...]

Do you mean LeQuan Brummer (Tim's wife)?

Unfortunately, I can not repeat here some of the stories I have heard
about her responses to customer inquires.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll