Why is Shimano so hated by some?

Gee, and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney aren't on the Board of
Directors. How can that be??

Chalo wrote:
(Evan Evans) wrote;


As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few
posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?


My take:

1) Shimano abuse their position as market leader to displace other
options from the marketplace, particularly the market for new complete
bikes.

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and
non-serviceable parts for the lowest possible cost, then proceed to
charge just as much as the market will bear.

3) Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of
users, while ignoring the rest.

If you don't have unusual requirements for bike components, don't care
whether other sources and options are available to you, and don't care
whether other sources and options are available to others, then there
is no reason for you to avoid Shimano products.

If you appreciate variety and choices in the market for bike
equipment, note that buying Shimano products works to reduce the
variety and choices available.

David writes:

Yes, STIs are not serviceable, but then many old digital cameras and
old computers out there are not economically serviceable either.

Any computer out of warranty is not economically serviceable, unless
you have the skills to fix it yourself. The cheapest way to replace
a hard drive is to buy it inside a new computer.

(Evan Evans) wrote in
m:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few
posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

With their products? Nothing, generally. The main argument you'll read
here is STI vx Ergo. When STI wears or breaks, they don't make
replacement parts available. Ergo has every part available for
replacement. Furthermore, most of the "workings" (ratchets, springs and
holders, etc) are the same for Record and all the way down the line.

Some folks like the way one fits the hand or operates better than the
other. That's what it really comes to.

On the other hand, Shimano has been compared with Microsoft here, and
it's for a good reason. On OEM, they make their stuff available to
manufacturers far cheaper than does Campy. So, they've flooded the
market. (Like I said, their stuff is great.) Some folks will then take
left-over inventory, etc, and sell it to mail order houses. It will
then often appear in their listings cheaper than does Campy. Word has
it Shimano is putting an end to this "practice". Example - look at the
prices of the Shimano 7800-series (DA 10-spd). Whatever, their PAST
business practices have been found to be annoying to some.

FWIW, although Shimano dominates the cycle industry, cycling is only a
small part of their business. There mostly a fishing reel company.
Shows the respect our sport gets, right?

"David" wrote in message

But most of the Shimano's complaint has been centered around their well
known STI finite lifespan.. However, you've got to look at the
perspective that Shimano sells a lot of these STIs compared to
Campagnolo with their Ergos, so even a 1% return (factory defect) for
Shimano, the number will ALWAYS be larger than Campagnolo.

Years ago, when I worked in a camera store, I had the feeling that the Canon
AE-1 was a trouble prone camera, as I saw so many broken ones. Of course,
it was also the most popular SLR of it's day so I checked our sales and
repair records. Turns out it was actually more reliable than other models
we sold, we just sold so many more AE-1s that the repair figures were also
large. I figure Shimano seems the same, they sell "tons" more gear than
Campagnolo so you are bound to find more broken units. It does bug me that
the brifters are pretty much unrepairable compared with Campy but otherwise
I like the stuff. I have been using it since they first came out with the
"Crane" rear derailleur. A brief, and trouble prone, flirt with Super
Record sent me back to the cold clutches of Shimano. What I don't get is
the near religious passion many Campy people have for their product. While
that is OK, the need to bash the bigger competitor is unseemly. Seems to be
a insecurity issue IMO.

Tim McTeague

richard writes:

(Evan Evans) wrote in
m:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a
few posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the
use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

With their products? Nothing, generally. The main argument you'll
read here is STI vx Ergo. When STI wears or breaks, they don't make
replacement parts available. Ergo has every part available for
replacement. Furthermore, most of the "workings" (ratchets, springs
and holders, etc) are the same for Record and all the way down the
line.

Some folks like the way one fits the hand or operates better than
the other. That's what it really comes to.

That is what it comes to from a functional perspective. There is
also the aesthetic perspective and the price perspective. IMHO,
Campy wins the ergonomics and aesthetics points but loses the price
point. The rear hub flange spacing is also a significant issue that
Campy really needs to fix.

Tim McNamara wrote in message ...

... $400 bikes nowadays work better than $750 bikes of 20 years ago,
in terms of shifting and such...

Make it ANY price and it would be correct.

In article ,
Tim McNamara wrote:

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference
being that Shimano products are reliably good. Campagnolo is the
Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better and
last longer, but there is a premium to be paid.

I think that analogy is somewhat flawed. Unlike Apple, Campagnolo really
hasn't shown much evidence of being an innovator over the years, often
lagging well behind competitors and loosing market share because of it.

What they do do when they finally get it into gear (pun intended) is take
other people's ideas and refine them to a very high degree.

-Cary

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:58:31 +0100, Jokke wrote:

Den Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:30:01 -0600 skrev Tim McNamara:

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference
being that Shimano products are reliably good. Campagnolo is the
Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better and
last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be
perhaps the OS/2 of the bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

Where is Linux? I would like to see some free bike products ;-)

SRAM is Linux

On 29 Nov 2003 02:50:57 -0800, (Chalo) wrote:

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and
non-serviceable parts for the lowest possible cost, then proceed to
charge just as much as the market will bear.

I used to think that Phil Wood hubs were really good, until I bought
some. In 1-2 years I had to send them back to the factory for
servicing. For orders of magnitude less I now use Ultegra hubs. They
don't get corroded even in winter salted streets conditions. They
easily go 2 years. The UN-72 BBs were pretty lame, but then so were
the Phil Woods. The Ultegra BBs are not quick-wearing. What wears
longer?

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference
being that Shimano products are reliably good. Campagnolo is the
Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better and
last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be
perhaps the OS/2 of the bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

Where is Linux? I would like to see some free bike products ;-)

Sturmey-Archer, definitely. I've got 8 AW's lined up on my dresser
from dumped city bikes.