where do taxes go?

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Monday, July 15, 2013 3:08:23 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 15/07/13 12:28, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:08:16 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:



That is correct. Another way of putting it is "Seizing the lane is

not always a safe thing to do".



I suppose nothing in this world is always safe to do. But your

example is illustrating something entirely different: Pulling out

from a side road directly in front of a speeding truck is not a safe

thing to do.





Funny you should mention that, and on topic for "where do taxes go?"



I stopped and took a photo of a new road treatment on a route I often

take. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55102679@N05/9291368470/ There are

3 photos and a video of the same place.



The new bike lane forces riders toward the gutter right before a road

junction, on a slight downhill. It gets steeper just around the corner,

where I can *roll* at up to 60 km/h.



So if you use the bike lane, you get moved to the most unsafe position

on the road (gutter just before a road junction), then the bike lane

vanishes and becomes pedestrian footpath as you exit the junction!



This was /designed/ by a road traffic engineering company, in

consultation with bicycling *advocacy* group, and others.



http://www.gta.com.au/home.aspx

https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/



In a reply letter from council, they said the "traffic safety

improvements were independently designed by GTA traffic consultants"!

Wow. I can't imagine a much worse design!



I am yet to meet with a council engineer on site to review my concerns.

Astonishingly bad design! It's worthy of an entry in the book "Crap Bicycle Lanes" or the associated website. Click "Facility of the Month" at http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/

Here in the U.S. we also have consulting firms that fly into cities, pitch their ability to transform the world, and design weird bike facilities. Their main selling point is "It's innovative!" IOW, if nobody's ever done it before, then it _must_ be good! They conveniently ignore that in many cases, nobody's done it before because it's #*@!! crazy!

- Frank Krygowski

Yeah, that's amazingly bad. I assume you don't use it, doing so is
asking for trouble. Even without the bottleneck on the far side it is a
bad design, since there will be a conflict with any car turning left off
the main road.

--
Joe Riel

On 7/15/2013 11:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2013 3:08:23 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 15/07/13 12:28, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:08:16 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:



That is correct. Another way of putting it is "Seizing the lane is

not always a safe thing to do".



I suppose nothing in this world is always safe to do. But your

example is illustrating something entirely different: Pulling out

from a side road directly in front of a speeding truck is not a safe

thing to do.





Funny you should mention that, and on topic for "where do taxes go?"



I stopped and took a photo of a new road treatment on a route I often

take. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55102679@N05/9291368470/ There are

3 photos and a video of the same place.



The new bike lane forces riders toward the gutter right before a road

junction, on a slight downhill. It gets steeper just around the corner,

where I can *roll* at up to 60 km/h.



So if you use the bike lane, you get moved to the most unsafe position

on the road (gutter just before a road junction), then the bike lane

vanishes and becomes pedestrian footpath as you exit the junction!



This was /designed/ by a road traffic engineering company, in

consultation with bicycling *advocacy* group, and others.



http://www.gta.com.au/home.aspx

https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/



In a reply letter from council, they said the "traffic safety

improvements were independently designed by GTA traffic consultants"!

Wow. I can't imagine a much worse design!



I am yet to meet with a council engineer on site to review my concerns.

Astonishingly bad design! It's worthy of an entry in the book "Crap Bicycle Lanes" or the associated website. Click "Facility of the Month" at http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/

Here in the U.S. we also have consulting firms that fly into cities, pitch their ability to transform the world, and design weird bike facilities. Their main selling point is "It's innovative!" IOW, if nobody's ever done it before, then it _must_ be good! They conveniently ignore that in many cases, nobody's done it before because it's #*@!! crazy!

- Frank Krygowski


It just goes on. In a smallish midwestern city (here) you
get six I'm not kidding six City Bicycle Coordinators plus
outside contractors and 'experts' shoveling dollars at cross
purposes until the aquarium has become fish soup.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 16/07/13 02:32, Joe Riel wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On Monday, July 15, 2013 3:08:23 AM UTC-4, James wrote:

Funny you should mention that, and on topic for "where do taxes go?"



I stopped and took a photo of a new road treatment on a route I often

take. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55102679@N05/9291368470/ There are

3 photos and a video of the same place.

Yeah, that's amazingly bad. I assume you don't use it, doing so is
asking for trouble. Even without the bottleneck on the far side it is a
bad design, since there will be a conflict with any car turning left off
the main road.


I don't use it. I look behind and maybe signal if necessary, then move
out from the left to the middle of the lane. I did the same before the
new road treatment, because I'm rolling about as fast as the cars, and I
don't want them passing me on the slight corners at speed. I've not had
a problem there, just frustrated by the incompetence of the woeful
design supposed to improve safety for bike riders.

--
JS

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:04:53 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, July 15, 2013 3:08:23 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 15/07/13 12:28, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:08:16 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:



That is correct. Another way of putting it is "Seizing the lane is

not always a safe thing to do".



I suppose nothing in this world is always safe to do. But your

example is illustrating something entirely different: Pulling out

from a side road directly in front of a speeding truck is not a safe

thing to do.





Funny you should mention that, and on topic for "where do taxes go?"



I stopped and took a photo of a new road treatment on a route I often

take. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55102679@N05/9291368470/ There are

3 photos and a video of the same place.



The new bike lane forces riders toward the gutter right before a road

junction, on a slight downhill. It gets steeper just around the corner,

where I can *roll* at up to 60 km/h.



So if you use the bike lane, you get moved to the most unsafe position

on the road (gutter just before a road junction), then the bike lane

vanishes and becomes pedestrian footpath as you exit the junction!



This was /designed/ by a road traffic engineering company, in

consultation with bicycling *advocacy* group, and others.



http://www.gta.com.au/home.aspx

https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/



In a reply letter from council, they said the "traffic safety

improvements were independently designed by GTA traffic consultants"!

Wow. I can't imagine a much worse design!



I am yet to meet with a council engineer on site to review my concerns.

Astonishingly bad design! It's worthy of an entry in the book "Crap Bicycle Lanes" or the associated website. Click "Facility of the Month" at http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/

Here in the U.S. we also have consulting firms that fly into cities, pitch their ability to transform the world, and design weird bike facilities. Their main selling point is "It's innovative!" IOW, if nobody's ever done it before, then it _must_ be good! They conveniently ignore that in many cases, nobody's done it before because it's #*@!! crazy!

- Frank Krygowski


Don't knock it. I've been a "consultant" a few times. And frequently I
did know how to solve what I considered as a problem.... but sometimes
the client didn't perceive the problem and thus my solution was
considered redundant :-)

But sometimes the consultant tells the truth. Bangkok traffic is
extremely heavy and sometimes a bit chaotic. Twenty years ago, or
more, the Thai government hired a German consultant company to survey
the system and provide a solution to the problem.

After several months of study the German consultants advised the Thais
that there was no solution and the only possible remedy was to abandon
the city and move to another locality.

(Note that Bangkok is bounded on three sides by a river and thus can
only expand upward :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, 12 July 2013 14:15:05 UTC+1, datakoll wrote:
GOVERNMENT AGENTS HAVE PICKED THEM EVERYONE

Wheredo guvmint agents pass their loot?

On Friday, 12 July 2013 17:50:40 UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2013 10:46:41 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:





Uh, that was _your_ money:



"funded by a $203,000 federal grant..."



So, should people get instruction on how to ride a bike legally and safely?



If so, how should that be done?



- Frank Krygowski

Give them each a pistol with licence to shoot errant drivers.

On Monday, 15 July 2013 00:19:45 UTC+1, Jay Beattie wrote:


And on top of that, riding the direction of traffic (for example) is even part of driver's training and is covered in our DMV drivers' manual, although we also have a manual for bicyclists. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEP...ike_manual.pdf



I think more benefit would come from teaching about bicycling in driver's training, since much of the mayhem I see results from motorists failing to yield right of way to bicyclists rather than vice versa. Many motorists just don't know how to deal with bicyclists or bicycle specific infrastructure (e.g. no parking in bike lanes, yielding to bicycles in bike lane, etc.)



I sat at a four-way stop, yelling at some motorist to go -- the window tinting was so dark, I couldn't even see the driver but assumed he/she was waiting for me -- although I was the "car" on the left and was not first in time. I finally gave up and went, just as some frustrated motorist was snaking by and about whacked me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaXMTtykHfE Motorists don't seem to understand right of way, or can't keep track of it.

I believe you mean precedence or priority, not ROW, which in Britain is recognition of established footpaths of which it is unlawful and illegal to obstruct or let fall into disrepair. The "landowner" must maintain the public ROW for the common good.

On Saturday, 13 July 2013 03:38:16 UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:



Oh, I got the usual treatment of the 1950s: Training wheels, then Dad running along beside me, then the miracle of balancing. That was all the training, except "watch out for cars."



I can recall my teenage years, biking every day for transportation


Do you mean travelling or where you portering?

and recreation with three friends, with two of us claiming you're supposed to ride with traffic, the other two claiming you're supposed to ride facing traffic. Splitting the pack must have been interesting for motorists.



I started really learning about cycling in 1970 or so. By then, college had taught me the value of reading, and how to learn things from books.

I had "365 bedtime stories" or some such title. It was very good and of course I could not get asleep so Mum had to read three of them.




My first course or seminar on proper cycling was 1978, IIRC. By then, I'd begun amassing a library on bicycling.

You mean "about bicycling" or "on top of the bikes in the basement"?



Of course, most people on bikes don't make it to my 1970 stage. In fact, most people don't believe there's anything to learn. :-/


There is an art in failing to understand. ;-)

On Friday, July 12, 2013 1:00:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
If that quarter million dollars accomplishes anything useful

Money, as you know, is like water. So, it festers and tuns bad when stagnant. Let's keep it circulating.

Larry

On Monday, July 15, 2013 9:11:15 PM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:
On Friday, 12 July 2013 14:15:05 UTC+1, datakoll wrote:

GOVERNMENT AGENTS HAVE PICKED THEM EVERYONE



Wheredo guvmint agents pass their loot?

SUNTRUST !