True Temper calling it quits

I guess this is old news by now.

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...-different-era

https://www.google.com/#q=bicycle+frame+tubing+sets

I doahn no nothing abt tubing.

Canoe n kayak materials in a similar market area began serious developments in plastics/fiberglass/resins as ‘composites’ with ABS 40 years ago. First rotomolded plastic hulls appeared at that time.

Downsizing the defense industry following USSR’s failure led to new entrepreneurs in the area.

Today, plastic solid hulls are use able and cheap compared to handwork in ‘composites’ giving a cost ceiling in the market for those who have the $$$$ for composite performance into ultra lights where a kayak hull in expedition kevlar at 16’ weighs 50 pounds , in UL as low as 20.

Or a plastic (Tupperware) hull for $1500 compared to $3000 for the Kevlar hull in a less sophisticated hull design ( not as fast) but so durable that dragging one on over short portage is not unknown. Play boat kayaks run whitewater with ease then the hardy n skilled fall of waterfalls.

Paddlers in Walmart kayaks often drown.

There is no TdF Armstrong USPS in the sport but with Tupperware a serious increase in water parks on small town rivers as an economic stimulus.

Aging builders aged with the market trend into tupperware leaving fewer composite types with consolidation into larger small manufacturing facilities eg Wenonah/Current Designs.

Recently, canoe builders lost Royalex.

http://www.canoekayak.com/canoe/life...S0Edy7mCUjD.97

I have 2 Royalex rock bashers and a Kevlar expedition sea kayak.

After the defense shrinkage, the manufacturer for neoprene for et suits left town but production was picked up elsewhere.

The scene looks like TdF USPS into touring but in a kayak or canoe the exertion level is as low as you choose but access to water is significantly more expensive.

While there are significant reasons for composites survival in the Tupperware market, so far, the quantity for steel vs aluminum or CF are is less and more ephemeral. Steel is real doesn’t cut it with a new entry buyer.

Composites are real. Jus doahn drag it across the portage. Kayak like Magellan

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 5:28:33 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
I guess this is old news by now.

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line

This is exceedingly stupid since there is about to be an entirely regrowth of steel frames. At all of the local shops sales of road CF have almost completely ceased as more and more people have seen frame and fork failures.

On 2016-12-29 17:28, Doug Landau wrote:
I guess this is old news by now.

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line


It is unusual considering the renewed interest in steel. Even old
experienced manufacturers say that, like in the article at the bottom of
your link:

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...n-fiber-frames

--
Regards, Joerg (riding steel frame)

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:47:51 -0800, Joerg
wrote:
On 2016-12-29 17:28, Doug Landau wrote:
I guess this is old news by now.

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line


It is unusual considering the renewed interest in steel. Even old
experienced manufacturers say that, like in the article at the bottom
of your link:

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...n-fiber-frames

There is a steel resurgence? Where? I don't go to bike shops more than
a couple times a year so maybe I've missed it. I don't see any steel
bikes in most of them- aluminum and CF predominate.

All my bikes are steel but I am not exactly up to date. One's a hub gear
3 sp, one's a 7 speed, two are 8 speeds and all the derailleur bikes
have DT friction shifters. Oh, forgot the tandem which has 9 sp STI.
When I go into bike shops, most of the bikes on offer look like aline
technology to me...

Joerg wrote:
:On 2016-12-29 17:28, Doug Landau wrote:
: I guess this is old news by now.
:
: http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line
:

:It is unusual considering the renewed interest in steel. Even old
:experienced manufacturers say that, like in the article at the bottom of
:your link:

:http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...n-fiber-frames

Tha'ts because they can't possibly compete with the chinese mass
prouced carbon frames. Steel is a nich product, and the labor costs
are lower.

--
sig 57

On Friday, December 30, 2016 at 8:30:47 AM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:47:51 -0800, Joerg
wrote:
On 2016-12-29 17:28, Doug Landau wrote:
I guess this is old news by now.

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line


It is unusual considering the renewed interest in steel. Even old
experienced manufacturers say that, like in the article at the bottom
of your link:

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...n-fiber-frames

There is a steel resurgence? Where? I don't go to bike shops more than
a couple times a year so maybe I've missed it. I don't see any steel
bikes in most of them- aluminum and CF predominate.

All my bikes are steel but I am not exactly up to date. One's a hub gear
3 sp, one's a 7 speed, two are 8 speeds and all the derailleur bikes
have DT friction shifters. Oh, forgot the tandem which has 9 sp STI.
When I go into bike shops, most of the bikes on offer look like aline
technology to me...

Hardly true around here. A few of my local bike shops: https://www.westernbikeworks.com/search/road-bikes http://rivercitybicycles.com/catalog/bike-inventory/
http://www.bikegallery.com/product-l...00/?rb_ct=1001

O.K., here are some steel bikes: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...p?category=483
http://clevercycles.com/bicycles/city

My neighborhood bike shop has lots of steel bikes, but it specializes in "classic" bikes. http://www.burlingamebikes.com/the-classics/

This is not to say that we don't have a lot of steel builders, but custom built is a whole different market than OTC steel bikes. http://oregonbikelist.com/list

What I have seen is the market turning more towards carbon with even low-ish end bikes having full carbon forks. I have not been seeing a lot of failed carbon, notwithstanding Tom's failures. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the incident rate is not so high that the market is abandoning CF (and it would if the risk were that high).

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/30/2016 11:54 AM, jbeattie wrote:

What I have seen is the market turning more towards carbon with even low-ish end bikes having full carbon forks. I have not been seeing a lot of failed carbon, notwithstanding Tom's failures. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the incident rate is not so high that the market is abandoning CF (and it would if the risk were that high).

Having shopped for a friend's bike this summer, I'll confirm that carbon
forks are everywhere. Which is fine, but I wish (and she wished) that
more of them came with fender eyelets and clearance for somewhat fatter
tires.

She ended up with a steel Bianchi. (Thanks again for the tip, Andrew.)
Not that she or I had steel as a requirement. It's just that it was
almost the only bike that had the features she wanted.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, December 30, 2016 at 5:48:47 PM UTC+1, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:
:On 2016-12-29 17:28, Doug Landau wrote:
: I guess this is old news by now.
:
: http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line
:

:It is unusual considering the renewed interest in steel. Even old
:experienced manufacturers say that, like in the article at the bottom of
:your link:

:http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...n-fiber-frames

Tha'ts because they can't possibly compete with the chinese mass
prouced carbon frames. Steel is a nich product, and the labor costs
are lower.

--
sig 57

I think that is exactly the reason. They can't compete with the low end (cost) and high end (know how) CF frames.
My LBS had them in their collection for a while but they didn't sell. Too expensive.

Lou

On 2016-12-30 08:48, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:
:On 2016-12-29 17:28, Doug Landau wrote:
: I guess this is old news by now.
:
: http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...le-tubing-line
:

:It is unusual considering the renewed interest in steel. Even old
:experienced manufacturers say that, like in the article at the bottom of
:your link:

:http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/...n-fiber-frames

Tha'ts because they can't possibly compete with the chinese mass
prouced carbon frames. Steel is a nich product, and the labor costs
are lower.


Probably. It's the same almost everywhere. I design electronics and
every time a client transfers production to Asia the cost drops to half
or less. Including materials and all. The quality is usually superb (I
often get to check that). Overcoming such a large difference is going to
be a tall order. The cost of doing business in the US is too high. How
much that (hopefully) improves with the new administration remains to be
seen.

If I'd need a new bike it would have a titanium frame. Probably from
Bikesdirect.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/