Pantani Question

Make that four "cogs" although the typo has interesting connotations.

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
ink.net...
Les Woodland has an interesting article in the latest ProCycling about the
classic climbers. He points out that guys like Gaul, Bahamontes and
Kubler were essentially climbing with four goats as they had four cog in
the back and later five. Those big jumps, plus not being able to shift
out of the saddle, made for quite a different climbing world.


wrote in message
...
On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote:

From:
Date: 11/7/2004 4:09 PM Eastern

I remember reading all these tributes on eurosport after his death,
and a lot of people said the same thing. "Whenever I climb a hill, I
try to emulate how you did it." and so on.ANd others said he'd
inspired them to get into cycling after 1998. As for climbing like he
does I don't even bother trying.


I really think he could have been the best pure climber of at least a
generation. It's just too bad that wasn't enough.
I think the drugs were to get more and overall wins. Just sad when one
of the
great ones thinks he needs a little bit more.
Bill C


What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC
website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really
fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez,
and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his
last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's
like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope
with the fame, drugs aside.

Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but
the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air?

wrote in message
...
On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote:

From:
Date: 11/7/2004 4:09 PM Eastern

I remember reading all these tributes on eurosport after his death,
and a lot of people said the same thing. "Whenever I climb a hill, I
try to emulate how you did it." and so on.ANd others said he'd
inspired them to get into cycling after 1998. As for climbing like he
does I don't even bother trying.


I really think he could have been the best pure climber of at least a
generation. It's just too bad that wasn't enough.
I think the drugs were to get more and overall wins. Just sad when one of
the
great ones thinks he needs a little bit more.
Bill C


What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC
website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really
fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez,
and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his
last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's
like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope
with the fame, drugs aside.

Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but
the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air?


It's the curse of René Pottier, the first "king of the mountains'' in the
Tour. He crushed his opponents in 1906 and hung himself six months later.
The Frenchman you referring to is Thierry Claveyrolat. He comitted suicide
in 1999. On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera,
Virenque, etc. Gaul is another matter, but his problem was that he was
hooked on amphitamine.

Benjo Maso

wrote in message
...
On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote:

From:
Date: 11/7/2004 4:09 PM Eastern

I remember reading all these tributes on eurosport after his death,
and a lot of people said the same thing. "Whenever I climb a hill, I
try to emulate how you did it." and so on.ANd others said he'd
inspired them to get into cycling after 1998. As for climbing like he
does I don't even bother trying.


I really think he could have been the best pure climber of at least a
generation. It's just too bad that wasn't enough.
I think the drugs were to get more and overall wins. Just sad when one of
the
great ones thinks he needs a little bit more.
Bill C


What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC
website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really
fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez,
and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his
last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's
like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope
with the fame, drugs aside.

Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but
the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air?


It's the curse of René Pottier, the first "king of the mountains'' in the
Tour. He crushed his opponents in 1906 and hung himself six months later.
The Frenchman you referring to is Thierry Claveyrolat. He comitted suicide
in 1999. On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera,
Virenque, etc. Gaul is another matter, but his problem was that he was
hooked on amphitamine.

Benjo Maso

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:26:05 +0100, "benjo maso"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote:




What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC
website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really
fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez,
and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his
last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's
like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope
with the fame, drugs aside.

Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but
the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air?


It's the curse of René Pottier, the first "king of the mountains'' in the
Tour. He crushed his opponents in 1906 and hung himself six months later.
The Frenchman you referring to is Thierry Claveyrolat. He comitted suicide
in 1999. On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera,
Virenque, etc. Gaul is another matter, but his problem was that he was
hooked on amphitamine.

Benjo Maso


Yes, that was the guy's name, I found it anyways. There was a nice
photo of him in the tour on the Alpe and it was a sad story. BUt
you're absolutely right, plenty of these guys are perfectly sane and
normal. I remember seeing Bahamontes on tv when they presented
Virenque with his mountain jersey in 2003. Phil and Paul were
commenting that except for his gray hair he looked exactly the same,
and he did! I saw photos of him from his tour days and he looked
almost the same except with black hair. HE's still in great shape.
Herrera is apparently a bit eccentric, but it doesn't sound like he's
suicidal or depressed or anything like that. ON graham watson's site
there's a great photo of Herrera all covered in blood from a horrible
crash, somewhere in the alps. Apparently, he went on to win that
stage!

Funny to think that with all the great spanish cyclists, the tour's
first spanish winner wasn't until 1959!

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:26:05 +0100, "benjo maso"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote:




What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC
website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really
fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez,
and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his
last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's
like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope
with the fame, drugs aside.

Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but
the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air?


It's the curse of René Pottier, the first "king of the mountains'' in the
Tour. He crushed his opponents in 1906 and hung himself six months later.
The Frenchman you referring to is Thierry Claveyrolat. He comitted suicide
in 1999. On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera,
Virenque, etc. Gaul is another matter, but his problem was that he was
hooked on amphitamine.

Benjo Maso


Yes, that was the guy's name, I found it anyways. There was a nice
photo of him in the tour on the Alpe and it was a sad story. BUt
you're absolutely right, plenty of these guys are perfectly sane and
normal. I remember seeing Bahamontes on tv when they presented
Virenque with his mountain jersey in 2003. Phil and Paul were
commenting that except for his gray hair he looked exactly the same,
and he did! I saw photos of him from his tour days and he looked
almost the same except with black hair. HE's still in great shape.
Herrera is apparently a bit eccentric, but it doesn't sound like he's
suicidal or depressed or anything like that. ON graham watson's site
there's a great photo of Herrera all covered in blood from a horrible
crash, somewhere in the alps. Apparently, he went on to win that
stage!

Funny to think that with all the great spanish cyclists, the tour's
first spanish winner wasn't until 1959!

benjo maso wrote:
On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera,
Virenque,

Legend has it that Virenque survived many days of grueling interrogation
at the hands of the French police over the course of 10 months before
confessing to systematic drug use. David Millar, however, a time
trialist, caved after less than 48 hours over a measly few empty ampules
of EPO.

Draw your own conclusions.

benjo maso wrote:
On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera,
Virenque,

Legend has it that Virenque survived many days of grueling interrogation
at the hands of the French police over the course of 10 months before
confessing to systematic drug use. David Millar, however, a time
trialist, caved after less than 48 hours over a measly few empty ampules
of EPO.

Draw your own conclusions.

gym gravity wrote:

Legend has it that Virenque survived many days of grueling interrogation
at the hands of the French police over the course of 10 months before
confessing to systematic drug use. David Millar, however, a time
trialist, caved after less than 48 hours over a measly few empty ampules
of EPO.

Draw your own conclusions.

Virenque was signing autographs and posing for photos with policemen's
wives...

gym gravity wrote:

Legend has it that Virenque survived many days of grueling interrogation
at the hands of the French police over the course of 10 months before
confessing to systematic drug use. David Millar, however, a time
trialist, caved after less than 48 hours over a measly few empty ampules
of EPO.

Draw your own conclusions.

Virenque was signing autographs and posing for photos with policemen's
wives...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:26:05 +0100, "benjo maso"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote:




What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC
website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really
fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez,
and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his
last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's
like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope
with the fame, drugs aside.

Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but
the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air?


It's the curse of René Pottier, the first "king of the mountains'' in the
Tour. He crushed his opponents in 1906 and hung himself six months later.
The Frenchman you referring to is Thierry Claveyrolat. He comitted suicide
in 1999. On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't
mentally
fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic,
Herrera,
Virenque, etc. Gaul is another matter, but his problem was that he was
hooked on amphitamine.

Benjo Maso


Yes, that was the guy's name, I found it anyways. There was a nice
photo of him in the tour on the Alpe and it was a sad story. BUt
you're absolutely right, plenty of these guys are perfectly sane and
normal. I remember seeing Bahamontes on tv when they presented
Virenque with his mountain jersey in 2003. Phil and Paul were
commenting that except for his gray hair he looked exactly the same,
and he did! I saw photos of him from his tour days and he looked
almost the same except with black hair. HE's still in great shape.
Herrera is apparently a bit eccentric, but it doesn't sound like he's
suicidal or depressed or anything like that. ON graham watson's site
there's a great photo of Herrera all covered in blood from a horrible
crash, somewhere in the alps. Apparently, he went on to win that
stage!

Funny to think that with all the great spanish cyclists, the tour's
first spanish winner wasn't until 1959!



Spain hasn't been always a great cycling nation, as it is today. Before 1930
there have been only three spanish riders who had incidentally participated
to the Tour (Blanco in 1910, Janer in 1920, 21, 24 and Canardo in 1928 and
1929). In 1930 Desgrange invited a full-size Spanish team was invited, but
in 1931 it had been reduced to one rider (Cepeda). It took four more years
before there was again a complete spanish team. At that time in Spain
bicycle racing was clearly in the lift, but the Civil War was of course an
enormous set back. After 1939 cycling became extremely popular and the star
riders earned as much money as the famous matadors, but because Spain as a
cycling nation was almost completely in isolation, the sport developed in a
very peculiar way. Just as in Italy in the 1980's the stars weren't so much
trying to win (they were payed anyway) as trying to make the their
competitors lose and didn't hardly take any risks. Most races ended in mass
sprints, even mountain stages. The climbers sprinted like madmen to arrive
first a the top of the cols, but after that usually waited for the pack
(just like Bahamontes in the Tour of '54). But although the spanish public
was convinced that their own champions were the best riders of the world,
the truth wa sthat they were not capable anymore to compete on an
international level, as was shown in 1949 when Spain made its comeback in
the Tour and the whole team abandoned the race after six stages. To avoid a
new disaster the Spanish Cycling Union didn't even dare to sent a team to
the World Championship nor to the Tour of 1950 and more or less forced their
riders to participate to international races. So it was only in 1951 that
Spain could really begin to play a serious role in the Tour. So that they
had only eight years to wait for the victory of Bahamonts was after all not
bad at all.

Benjo