seized stem, ammonia?

Hello All,

I recently bought an old Peugeot road bike for next to nothing with the
hopes of cleaning it up and riding it around town.

All was going smoothly until I tried to raise the handlebars. Yes, the
aluminum stem is seized. I read around a bit and opted for the Sheldon
Brown method: I bought some ammonia and let it soak in that for 24+
hours. Still nothing.

I've read a few of the posts in this group about stem problems and I'm
really trying to avoid the cut off, drill out option that some favor.

So, is it possible that it needs to soak in ammonia longer or is there
something else people have had good luck with?

I know it's only an old Peugeot and that eventually I will want
something better, but dammit, this one's got nice lugs, and it's
yellow!

Thanks a bunch.

Bryan

On 20 Jun 2005 17:13:10 -0700, theolddirty wrote:

Hello All,

I recently bought an old Peugeot road bike for next to nothing with the
hopes of cleaning it up and riding it around town.

All was going smoothly until I tried to raise the handlebars. Yes, the
aluminum stem is seized. I read around a bit and opted for the Sheldon
Brown method: I bought some ammonia and let it soak in that for 24+
hours. Still nothing.

I've read a few of the posts in this group about stem problems and I'm
really trying to avoid the cut off, drill out option that some favor.

So, is it possible that it needs to soak in ammonia longer or is there
something else people have had good luck with?

I know it's only an old Peugeot and that eventually I will want
something better, but dammit, this one's got nice lugs, and it's
yellow!

Thanks a bunch.

Bryan



I had a aluminum seat post stuck in a steel seat tube. The post had a wedge
like a stem, the seat tube didn't have a pinch bolt.

I wrapped the seat tube with some towels and poured VERY HOT water on the
the towels. The towels help retain the heat on the seat tube. I then
poured liquid nitrogen onto the seat post. Worked like a charm!! Broke free
but still felt "sludgy" inside. I could adjust it though.

Since you probably don't have access to LN, try circuit board chiller or if
you invert a can of compressed air (used for blowing out keyboards and
such), the "air" comes out very cold.

--
Skuke
Reverse the domain name to send email

"skuke" wrote: (clip) Since you probably don't have access to LN, try
circuit board chiller or if you invert a can of compressed air (used for
blowing out keyboards and such), the "air" comes out very cold.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Another alternative is a CO2 extinguisher--remove the horn and stick the
tube down into (or onto) the seatpost. It will form flakes of dry ice (and
a lot of fog.)

Bryan who? writes:

I recently bought an old Peugeot road bike for next to nothing with
the hopes of cleaning it up and riding it around town.

All was going smoothly until I tried to raise the handlebars. Yes,
the aluminum stem is seized. I read around a bit and opted for the
Sheldon Brown method: I bought some ammonia and let it soak in that
for 24+ hours. Still nothing.

I've read a few of the posts in this group about stem problems and
I'm really trying to avoid the cut off, drill out option that some
favor.

So, is it possible that it needs to soak in ammonia longer or is
there something else people have had good luck with?

I know it's only an old Peugeot and that eventually I will want
something better, but dammit, this one's got nice lugs, and it's
yellow!

Since this is not a new subject, here is a perspective offered some
time ago... often:

Google search: "Stuck stem"

Jobst Brandt Mar 16 2001, 9:29 PM show options

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: (Jobst Brandt) - Find messages
by this author
Date: 17 Mar 2001 02:06:57 GMT
Local: Fri,Mar 16 2001 9:06 PM
Subject: stuck stem update
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Buck who? writes:

I've spent a week working on getting this stem loose. I've tried
almost every suggestion (stopping short of the propane torch). This
afternoon, things changed dramatically. After soaking it overnight
with liquid wrench, I proceeded to crank pretty hard on it, twisting
it by the handlebars with a small board in the way. Well, the stem
decided to let go. Right at the weld. Imagine my surprise! I felt
like He-Man! But now I have the quill portion of the stem stuck in
the steerer tube while the rest remains attached to my handlebar.

Now you're at the place you could have been a while ago. You should
have sawed the stem off short, drilled out as large as you can drill
and cut the inside with a Dremel tool. Once it has been determined
that the stem is not just stiff but stuck, it cannot be saved, even if
you were to dissolve its bond because it is badly corroded. Cut your
losses by hacksaw.

So, my next idea is to cut my losses. Literally, I'm thinking about
cutting the stem off even with the top of the steerer tube and just
converting the mess to threadless. Has anyone out there used a
threadless stem with a threaded steerer?

I don't think you have enough steer tube extension to do that. The
reason this occurs is that the stem is and has been improperly
attached for a long time. Expanding the stem at the bottom makes it
not rotate but it is still free to yoyo back and forth in a manner
that pumps water into the interface, reducing any grease or oil to an
emulsion. Then you get rapid galvanic action that expands the stem to
have effectively a mm of ceramic cement between steerer and stem.

This is one good reason for the "threadless steertube" and a real
clamp that immobilizes the interface. It's not the only way. Cinelli
once had a standard expander and used a top clamp to secure the stem
at the end of the steer tube. I have been riding one of these for
many years but it is not as convenient as the new method.

Unfortunately, you'll need a new fork with a longer and threadless
steertube.

theolddirty wrote:
Hello All,

I recently bought an old Peugeot road bike for next to nothing with the
hopes of cleaning it up and riding it around town.

All was going smoothly until I tried to raise the handlebars. Yes, the
aluminum stem is seized. I read around a bit and opted for the Sheldon
Brown method: I bought some ammonia and let it soak in that for 24+
hours. Still nothing.

Bryan

It may not be seized but stuck. Old French bikes used a 22.0mm stem
rather than a 22.2mm stem and many a French bike has had a 22.2 strem
jammed into the steerer and it will not come out without cutting or
boring. Measure and see. Good luck.
Phil Brown

soak-tap hard once(downward**)-soak-torch-torch und freeze-

the soak deal is frozen parts need soaking under pressure-immersion-or
downflow via gravity if your on this planet.
but to get the penetrant into the area one needs to brush the seam
cleam, cut the rust dirt or oxide out with a utility razor tip-then get
some PC Blaster on it. But tipping the head pipe into a pail of
kerosene and letting it soak for severa;l days...
but why not torch lightly allowing just only the outside pipe to expand
then pluinge into the pail.
if this is done several times over two-three weeks
it will coma loose
you in some kinda rush?

torch and freeze is cool. ahhhhh! try forming (do not hold with fingers
or stick it up your nose) the dry ice into a tube shape so the stuff
slides right in after torching. creeek! klang

**legend has it that tapping twice reseats your problem which YOU
probabbbly caused by trying to force the gizmo out over all those extra
O2 molecules

Thanks Jobst, although this doesn't really answer the question, which
is "How long should I let the stem soak in the ammonia."

I did a fair amount of searching through the group before I posted and
was aware that the cut off/drill out method was the one you favor. I'm
not considering that method at the moment and wanted to see if others
had had any luck with the ammonia method.

Thanks Jobst!

Bryan

Brayan ... writes:

Thanks Jobst, although this doesn't really answer the question, which
is "How long should I let the stem soak in the ammonia."

I don't believe the ammonia method works mainly because the volume of
ammonia that can contact the offending oxide is minuscule and acting
on the edge of a long thin film. Chemically I am not aware of what
the products of this reaction are supposed to be but I have not heard
of a credible success story. All the ones of which I heard of were
tight stems that had not yet solidified.

I did a fair amount of searching through the group before I posted and
was aware that the cut off/drill out method was the one you favor. I'm
not considering that method at the moment and wanted to see if others
had had any luck with the ammonia method.

As I have mentioned, stainless steel swimming pool ladders have been
made with polished spherical aluminum plugs at the projecting ends.
In time, swimming pool water entering the interface corrodes the
aluminum to the extent that the steel tubing is expanded close to a
quarter inch.

Once the stem is solidly cemented, I believe you have no other option
but the hack saw. Local frame builders and bicycle shops will support
that scenario.

theolddirty wrote:
Hello All,

I recently bought an old Peugeot road bike for next to nothing with the
hopes of cleaning it up and riding it around town.

All was going smoothly until I tried to raise the handlebars. Yes, the
aluminum stem is seized. I read around a bit and opted for the Sheldon
Brown method: I bought some ammonia and let it soak in that for 24+
hours. Still nothing.

I've read a few of the posts in this group about stem problems and I'm
really trying to avoid the cut off, drill out option that some favor.

So, is it possible that it needs to soak in ammonia longer or is there
something else people have had good luck with?

I know it's only an old Peugeot and that eventually I will want
something better, but dammit, this one's got nice lugs, and it's
yellow!

Threaded stem? Cut it off at the top headset nut, remove forks, replace
with $50 carbon forks from eBay and threadless headset/stem. Be happy.

Zog The Undeniable wrote:

Threaded stem? Cut it off at the top headset nut, remove forks, replace
with $50 carbon forks from eBay and threadless headset/stem. Be happy.

Once you decide to go this route you can try putting the forks in a
vice with blocks of wood to protect them and then try to turn the stump
of the stem with a big pipe wrench, if you have one. Might not work but
nothing to lose at that point.