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#181
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AG: Country Roads
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#182
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AG: Country Roads
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:
On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#183
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AG: Country Roads
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:17:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know? Something similar happened here in Thailand. A foreign couple apparently riding side by side on a fairly wide two lane road were hit and killed by a pickup truck that ran into them from the rear. The Thai driving the pickup said that he dropped his phone and was reaching down for it and didn't see them. Obviously the pickup driver had to say something, he couldn't just ignore the fact that he had run over two people and what actually happened is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that the cyclists are dead. Had they been riding in a single line on the side of the road they might not be. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. Yes, I believe in every state a cyclist has a right to use the public highway, but does he have a right to impede other traffic? It has been a while since I drove in the U.S. but I definitely have the recollection that one was not entitled to impede other drivers. I remember signs stating "Slow traffic keep right". I also remember seeing trucks hauling sections of gigantic concrete pipe that weren't allowed to travel during the day or early evening, because their load took up more than one lane. -- Cheers, John B. |
#184
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AG: Country Roads
On 3/27/2015 7:00 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:17:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know? Something similar happened here in Thailand. A foreign couple apparently riding side by side on a fairly wide two lane road were hit and killed by a pickup truck that ran into them from the rear. The Thai driving the pickup said that he dropped his phone and was reaching down for it and didn't see them. Obviously the pickup driver had to say something, he couldn't just ignore the fact that he had run over two people and what actually happened is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that the cyclists are dead. Had they been riding in a single line on the side of the road they might not be. First, I think I lessen my chances of not being noticed (due to cell phones or whatever) by being less prominent in the road. I've confirmed this to my satisfaction by observing upcoming motorists in my mirror. When I'm more leftward, they adjust much sooner by merging left. If you're going to worry about the risk of deliberate homicide, remember that in the U.S., cyclists fatalities from _all_ causes happen only once in at least 10 million miles of riding; and half of those are due to blatant cyclist mistakes. Deliberate homicide is probably once in 100 million miles or so, and those murderers can take out pedestrians in crosswalks or on country roads, too. I'm not going to worry so much that I travel only in a nice safe car. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. Yes, I believe in every state a cyclist has a right to use the public highway, but does he have a right to impede other traffic? Some states have a "five or more" law saying any slow vehicle operator has to let a train of cars by when he can safely pull off. If he can't safely pull off, he keeps going. And a significant court case in Ohio - which generated a legal precedent - said that courts can't convict of impeding without taking the capability of the vehicle into account. IOW if you're moving at a reasonable speed for a bicycle, you're legally OK. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#185
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AG: Country Roads
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 13:46:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 3/27/2015 7:00 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:17:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know? Something similar happened here in Thailand. A foreign couple apparently riding side by side on a fairly wide two lane road were hit and killed by a pickup truck that ran into them from the rear. The Thai driving the pickup said that he dropped his phone and was reaching down for it and didn't see them. Obviously the pickup driver had to say something, he couldn't just ignore the fact that he had run over two people and what actually happened is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that the cyclists are dead. Had they been riding in a single line on the side of the road they might not be. First, I think I lessen my chances of not being noticed (due to cell phones or whatever) by being less prominent in the road. I've confirmed this to my satisfaction by observing upcoming motorists in my mirror. When I'm more leftward, they adjust much sooner by merging left. If you're going to worry about the risk of deliberate homicide, remember that in the U.S., cyclists fatalities from _all_ causes happen only once in at least 10 million miles of riding; and half of those are due to blatant cyclist mistakes. Deliberate homicide is probably once in 100 million miles or so, and those murderers can take out pedestrians in crosswalks or on country roads, too. I'm not going to worry so much that I travel only in a nice safe car. No, I wasn't advocating casual homicide, I was merely using that as a maximum measure if what might happen - driver texting, big truck turning right, guy runs a stop light, etc. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. Yes, I believe in every state a cyclist has a right to use the public highway, but does he have a right to impede other traffic? Some states have a "five or more" law saying any slow vehicle operator has to let a train of cars by when he can safely pull off. If he can't safely pull off, he keeps going. And a significant court case in Ohio - which generated a legal precedent - said that courts can't convict of impeding without taking the capability of the vehicle into account. IOW if you're moving at a reasonable speed for a bicycle, you're legally OK. I mentioned the huge concrete ducts which apparently were too big as the trucks were parked off the highway during hours of daylight, and a look at Ohio shows: 4511.22 Slow speed. (A) No person shall stop or operate a vehicle, trackless trolley, or street car at such an unreasonably slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when stopping or reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or to comply with law. and (B) Whenever the director of transportation or local authorities determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that slow speeds on any part of a controlled-access highway, expressway, or freeway consistently impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the director or such local authority may declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall operate a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or street car except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. No minimum speed limit established hereunder shall be less than thirty miles per hour, greater than fifty miles per hour, nor effective until the provisions of section 4511.21 of the Revised Code, relating to appropriate signs, have been fulfilled and local authorities have obtained the approval of the director. Arizona law states: ARS 28-704-A reads: A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when either of the following applies:. . . ARS 28-815 conditionally requires a bicycle to be operated as close as practicable to the right-hand curb. "as practicable" means sustainable, safely and for the long term. It would appear that U.S. law, in general, does not cater to the individual that deliberately impedes other traffic. On a personal basis I can't see how impeding others is justified as a matter of habit. It seems like a very selfish act. Rather like justifying armed robbery, "because the bloke ran out of money". -- Cheers, John B. |
#186
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AG: Country Roads
On 3/27/2015 7:11 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On a personal basis I can't see how impeding others is justified as a matter of habit. It seems like a very selfish act. Rather like justifying armed robbery, "because the bloke ran out of money". Well, my recent run to the hardware store on the bike was likely to delay some motorist, even though it actually didn't. But the delay, had it occurred, would have been far less than 30 seconds; it's usually less than five seconds (the time a motorist typically has to wait to change lanes and get around me). In any other context - e.g. pushing a grocery cart down an aisle, taking a child shopping, stopping to buy something from a sidewalk vendor - delaying someone else by five seconds doesn't raise an eyebrow; it's normal human interaction, seldom requiring even "excuse me." For some weird reason, it's considered an offense only when the person delayed is sitting on a super-comfortable seat, in air-conditioned comfort, while listening to his favorite music. Go figure! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#187
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AG: The best fluid for hydration
There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that you like and will drink lots of. -- joy beeson at comcast dot net http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/ The above message is a Usenet post. I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site. |
#188
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AG: Country Roads
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 20:02:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 3/27/2015 7:11 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On a personal basis I can't see how impeding others is justified as a matter of habit. It seems like a very selfish act. Rather like justifying armed robbery, "because the bloke ran out of money". Well, my recent run to the hardware store on the bike was likely to delay some motorist, even though it actually didn't. But the delay, had it occurred, would have been far less than 30 seconds; it's usually less than five seconds (the time a motorist typically has to wait to change lanes and get around me). In any other context - e.g. pushing a grocery cart down an aisle, taking a child shopping, stopping to buy something from a sidewalk vendor - delaying someone else by five seconds doesn't raise an eyebrow; it's normal human interaction, seldom requiring even "excuse me." Yes. Most noticeable when the other shopping cart driver demonstrate that she/he is willing to make way for others. A different attitude is frequently seen when the shopper drives down the middle of the aisle blocking all the other traffic. For some weird reason, it's considered an offense only when the person delayed is sitting on a super-comfortable seat, in air-conditioned comfort, while listening to his favorite music. Go figure! That isn't really true, is it. I can remember years ago when people driving 1948 Fords used to complain about some farmer and his team hauling a wagon load of loose hay down the road. -- Cheers, John B. |
#189
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AG: Country Roads
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative interactions. It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out. I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs. SMH |
#190
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AG: The best fluid for hydration
On 3/28/2015 11:27 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that you like and will drink lots of. I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to "get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And for me, salt substitute works even better. The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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