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State your opinion on COVID-19
As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#2
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Saturday, 28 March 2020 12:01:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. -- - Frank Krygowski I think that this COVID-19 virus is a lot more serious than governments are letting on. I also think that the various governments have really dropped the ball by allow people to come back into the country and then relying on those people to self quarantine for 14 days. We've seen how well that's worked with people already in the country going out and about as if everything is normal even though they should be in quarantine. I remember reading many years ago that experts in diseases were saying that the next pandemic was only an airplane flight away. Well folks, looks like they were right and that the pandemic is here. Look after yourselves and the best of luck in avoiding becoming a bad statistic. Cheers |
#3
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#4
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_.Â* That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. |
#5
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political correctness infestation. From WMAL today: https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/ Headline: "Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore" Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school logic class: "During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns." I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it. Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use "the French disease". -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#6
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Saturday, 28 March 2020 15:34:25 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote: On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political correctness infestation. From WMAL today: https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/ Headline: "Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore" Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school logic class: "During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns." I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it. Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use "the French disease". -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I used to live in Toronto, Canada in the Broadview & Dundas/Broadview & Gerrard area. It became know as Chinatown #2 or East Chinatown. The Chinese took over the transit shelters and set up shop in them and sold all sorts of stuff including live ducks. The offal and the stench were something that has to experienced to be believed. In summer on the weekends you couldn't keep a window open even though you lived a few blocks away from the main street. The illegal shops were so prevalent and sprawling on the sidewalks that in many cases pedestrians had to venture out onto the roadway in order to get past them. Having experienced that, I don't wonder that diseases spread so quickly. Cheers |
#7
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. Plus, the whole idea with these Draconian measures is to limit the damage. If we don't have the damage, that means the measures were successful and not that the measures were unnecessary -- unless there is data indicating that the whole thing is a hoax or that the expected infection/mortality rates without treatment were miscalculated. What we need is a clinical trial. No masks, social distancing, closed business, extra ventilators, etc.,for some big city. Party on! Then lock-down another big city and fill it with medical equipment and hand sanitizer and then check the mortality rates in six months. Control for temperature and region. Obvious choice would be Huston and Dallas or maybe Minneapolis and St. Paul. Nobody could switch cities. I'm very pleased to have bought a bag of rice today at the local Safeway. It was the last one on the shelf -- a lone bag of Thai jasmine rice. No plain old rice. Lots of produce and other good stuff. The horders are really into rice, beans and toilet paper -- which makes a great high-fiber casserole. Tons of people were out walking around. We had this little pedestrian traffic jam on one of our neighborhood walks with everyone trying to sort-out how to maintain social distancing. -- Jay Beattie. |
#8
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. Plus, the whole idea with these Draconian measures is to limit the damage. If we don't have the damage, that means the measures were successful and not that the measures were unnecessary -- unless there is data indicating that the whole thing is a hoax or that the expected infection/mortality rates without treatment were miscalculated. What we need is a clinical trial. No masks, social distancing, closed business, extra ventilators, etc.,for some big city. Party on! Then lock-down another big city and fill it with medical equipment and hand sanitizer and then check the mortality rates in six months. Control for temperature and region. Obvious choice would be Huston and Dallas or maybe Minneapolis and St. Paul. Nobody could switch cities. I'm very pleased to have bought a bag of rice today at the local Safeway. It was the last one on the shelf -- a lone bag of Thai jasmine rice. No plain old rice. Lots of produce and other good stuff. The horders are really into rice, beans and toilet paper -- which makes a great high-fiber casserole. Tons of people were out walking around. We had this little pedestrian traffic jam on one of our neighborhood walks with everyone trying to sort-out how to maintain social distancing. -- Jay Beattie. I don't know but I suppose some of you survivors will think of us when it's over. Meanwhile Sweden seems inclined to be a counter test (as I linked earlier) and Greenland will probably be first with accurate whole-population ratios. And situations on the ground are very different one place to another. My daughter mentioned the dearth of TP on Chicago's north side to her friend in Kansas who mailed (!) some to her. Never asked me. Our local groceries are thin of some things but I haven't seen anything to zero. I was at a Walgreens across from a grocery and that place was empty of many items including all paper products. Literally a few hundred feet away the Kroger manager had ample supplies. I'm not ready to make any broad judgement on this panic buying frenzy just yet. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#9
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 5:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two.Â* Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports].Â* Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. Plus, the whole idea with these Draconian measures is to limit the damage.Â* If we don't have the damage, that means the measures were successful and not that the measures were unnecessary -- unless there is data indicating that the whole thing is a hoax or that the expected infection/mortality rates without treatment were miscalculated.Â* What we need is a clinical trial. No masks, social distancing, closed business, extra ventilators, etc.,for some big city. Party on! Then lock-down another big city and fill it with medical equipment and hand sanitizer and then check the mortality rates in six months. Control for temperature and region.Â* Obvious choice would be Huston and Dallas or maybe Minneapolis and St. Paul. Nobody could switch cities. I'm very pleased to have bought a bag of rice today at the local Safeway.Â* It was the last one on the shelf -- a lone bag of Thai jasmine rice.Â* No plain old rice. Lots of produce and other good stuff.Â* The horders are really into rice, beans and toilet paper -- which makes a great high-fiber casserole.Â* Tons of people were out walking around. We had this little pedestrian traffic jam on one of our neighborhood walks with everyone trying to sort-out how to maintain social distancing. -- Jay Beattie. I don't know but I suppose some of you survivors will think of us when it's over. Does the "us" in that sentence refer to people who are refusing recommended health strategies? It might be good to know who here is still engaging in close contact with lots of the general public, attending parties, dating lots of new partners, visiting sick relatives, never washing hands, licking doorknobs, whatever. You know, vs. who is doing what most medical experts say we should. Maybe we can do our own mini-study. Check back six months from now and see how everyone's doing. We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated picnic. She has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to eat. Other friends (we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as careful, but no masks. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#10
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:34:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote: On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political correctness infestation. From WMAL today: https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/ Headline: "Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore" Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school logic class: "During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns." I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it. Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use "the French disease". And the French used to refer to "the English disease" :-) -- cheers, John B. |
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