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Truing Stand



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 4th 21, 02:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Truing Stand

On 6/4/2021 2:16 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.


Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small problem as a stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you take to solve that?

Lou


A minute or two.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #12  
Old June 4th 21, 02:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Truing Stand

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:58:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:51:59 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 7:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 8:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally
build wheels now (when employees are 'too good' for some
jobs and some customers).Ä€ The result is the same.Ä€
Although a stand with good lighting can be more convenient
it's not essential.

I built my first wheel riding in a VW van during the long
drive to the airport for our first overseas bike tour. I
used the inverted bike frame as the truing stand.

Those were the days!

I built my first wheel in a Brooklyn park[1] over many hours
one sunny day many long years ago.

It fell apart riding to work Monday morning. I walked the
last mile or so.

[1]https://www.brooklyn.net/other_bklyns/bklyn_wi.html

I built my first wheel while living in a rolled-up newspaper, eating gravel in a snow storm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7w...ullMontyPython


Some people are just born to be competitive. Though you have to admit, Frank takes it to extremes.
  #13  
Old June 4th 21, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Truing Stand

Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.


Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou



It’s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

  #14  
Old June 4th 21, 04:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Truing Stand

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:17:32 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 5:39 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:34:13 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 4:51 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
I have a Park TS 8 which is basic but good and sturdy. What is needed to get it to true thru-the axle wheels? It seems the Park site ways use adaptors but only for the front wheel? Does not make sense should work for both?
Deacon mark

Buy this or make something like it:

https://www.parktool.com/product/thr...-adaptor-ts-ta

Front or rear shouldn't matter specifically but some modern
very wide axle formats won't fit in older stands (see tech
note in page above) in which case get these:

https://www.parktool.com/product/tru...ruing%20Stands

Wow!!!! $60 and $55 for the two Park adaptors you linked. I know Park makes good tools. But when you get up into the area of tools costing several times what you are repairing, it makes you think a bit.

I talked with a customer this morning who stripped the head
of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

If you use a truing stand all day long (our main unit is 50+
years old, purchased used, rebuilt a few times) money spent
on good tools is a cost saver. For home use, not so much.

BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally
build wheels now (when employees are 'too good' for some
jobs and some customers). The result is the same. Although
a stand with good lighting can be more convenient it's not
essential.

I got my Park TS in '78 or '79, IIRC, so not 50 years old, and it has gotten sloppy, and I need to do some work on it. What ****es me off about Park is that they do not support a lot of their old tools, like the original TS.. With some tools, its, "hey, toss it and buy the latest and greatest." I'm not against buying new stuff, but I prefer not to accumulate and to recycle when possible. I'm certainly not going to buy a new truing stand. Another case in point is the original DAG-1: https://tinyurl.com/eanf7zx5 That tip is too fat and stubby for through-axle derailleur hangers, and thus the new tool:
https://www.parktool.com/product/der...nt-gauge-dag-3
Park could have made a longer tip for the DAG-1 to make it compatible with through axle derailleur hangers, but it didn't. Their instruction is "buy a DAG-3." The DAG-3 is a really, really nice tool that finally catches up with improvements that were being used by Shimano ten or fifteen years ago (swing head on the gauge), but the DAG-1 is still functional and could be easily retrofitted -- rather than relegated to the dust heap.

IMO, a lot of Park's original tools were incredibly rudimentary. For example, any shop rat would have wondered why Park developed the DAG with a gauge that didn't swing out of the way when you moved past a stay. Other Park tools have struck me the same way with obviously missing features, like driver fittings, but the base tool is still useful -- if not a little kludgy. The features show up over time with different iterations of the tool -- but, IMO, the features were obviously missing at the outset. Its like the designers understood the purpose of the tool but didn't work on bikes.

BTW, I built my first wheel in '75-76 at a beaten-down neighborhood bike shop run primarily as a frame-building shop. I was friends with the owner, and he enlisted me to lace a wheel for one of his customers while he did something else, so he told me what to do, and I did it. Sutherland manual for figuring out spoke length (with all the typical pencil and pen marginal notes for weird rims and hubs), no tensiometers (feeling other wheels) and an old VAR stand. They were Robergel trois etoile, which was high zoot at the time. Once I got good at it, I was doing over-flow for the shop, which is why I bought the stand.

And going even further down memory lane, this was in a period of time when cycling was much more of a hobbyist sport. We were still a bunch of racers, but we were also mechanics. One of the guys I rode with had a full Campy tool kit, which even back then cost a boat load -- and basically everyone had a truing stand. You would debate 3X versus 4X or high flange versus low flange, tying and soldering etc., etc. Now it is just picking a brand and a model.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #15  
Old June 4th 21, 04:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default Truing Stand

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.


Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It’s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.


You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here 45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou



  #16  
Old June 4th 21, 04:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Truing Stand

On 6/4/2021 3:24 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:58:28 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:51:59 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 7:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 8:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally
build wheels now (when employees are 'too good' for some
jobs and some customers).Ä€ The result is the same.Ä€
Although a stand with good lighting can be more convenient
it's not essential.

I built my first wheel riding in a VW van during the long
drive to the airport for our first overseas bike tour. I
used the inverted bike frame as the truing stand.

Those were the days!

I built my first wheel in a Brooklyn park[1] over many hours
one sunny day many long years ago.

It fell apart riding to work Monday morning. I walked the
last mile or so.

[1]https://www.brooklyn.net/other_bklyns/bklyn_wi.html

I built my first wheel while living in a rolled-up newspaper, eating gravel in a snow storm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7w...ullMontyPython

-- Jay Beattie.



See Frank that I find funny.


So do I! There's hope, Lou.



--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old June 4th 21, 04:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Truing Stand

On 6/4/2021 9:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2021 2:16 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.


Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did
you take to solve that?

Lou


A minute or two.


I often have to remind myself that most people are baffled by simple
mechanics.

But the 110 miles still sounds amazing. I can envision that in, say,
South Dakota, but even there it seems unlikely. I can't imagine that was
necessary in Wisconsin.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old June 4th 21, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Truing Stand

On 6/4/2021 11:12 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:17:32 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 5:39 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:34:13 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 4:51 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
I have a Park TS 8 which is basic but good and sturdy. What is needed to get it to true thru-the axle wheels? It seems the Park site ways use adaptors but only for the front wheel? Does not make sense should work for both?
Deacon mark

Buy this or make something like it:

https://www.parktool.com/product/thr...-adaptor-ts-ta

Front or rear shouldn't matter specifically but some modern
very wide axle formats won't fit in older stands (see tech
note in page above) in which case get these:

https://www.parktool.com/product/tru...ruing%20Stands

Wow!!!! $60 and $55 for the two Park adaptors you linked. I know Park makes good tools. But when you get up into the area of tools costing several times what you are repairing, it makes you think a bit.

I talked with a customer this morning who stripped the head
of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

If you use a truing stand all day long (our main unit is 50+
years old, purchased used, rebuilt a few times) money spent
on good tools is a cost saver. For home use, not so much.

BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally
build wheels now (when employees are 'too good' for some
jobs and some customers). The result is the same. Although
a stand with good lighting can be more convenient it's not
essential.

I got my Park TS in '78 or '79, IIRC, so not 50 years old, and it has gotten sloppy, and I need to do some work on it. What ****es me off about Park is that they do not support a lot of their old tools, like the original TS. With some tools, its, "hey, toss it and buy the latest and greatest." I'm not against buying new stuff, but I prefer not to accumulate and to recycle when possible. I'm certainly not going to buy a new truing stand. Another case in point is the original DAG-1: https://tinyurl.com/eanf7zx5 That tip is too fat and stubby for through-axle derailleur hangers, and thus the new tool:
https://www.parktool.com/product/der...nt-gauge-dag-3
Park could have made a longer tip for the DAG-1 to make it compatible with through axle derailleur hangers, but it didn't. Their instruction is "buy a DAG-3." The DAG-3 is a really, really nice tool that finally catches up with improvements that were being used by Shimano ten or fifteen years ago (swing head on the gauge), but the DAG-1 is still functional and could be easily retrofitted -- rather than relegated to the dust heap.

IMO, a lot of Park's original tools were incredibly rudimentary. For example, any shop rat would have wondered why Park developed the DAG with a gauge that didn't swing out of the way when you moved past a stay. Other Park tools have struck me the same way with obviously missing features, like driver fittings, but the base tool is still useful -- if not a little kludgy. The features show up over time with different iterations of the tool -- but, IMO, the features were obviously missing at the outset. Its like the designers understood the purpose of the tool but didn't work on bikes.

BTW, I built my first wheel in '75-76 at a beaten-down neighborhood bike shop run primarily as a frame-building shop. I was friends with the owner, and he enlisted me to lace a wheel for one of his customers while he did something else, so he told me what to do, and I did it. Sutherland manual for figuring out spoke length (with all the typical pencil and pen marginal notes for weird rims and hubs), no tensiometers (feeling other wheels) and an old VAR stand. They were Robergel trois etoile, which was high zoot at the time. Once I got good at it, I was doing over-flow for the shop, which is why I bought the stand.

And going even further down memory lane, this was in a period of time when cycling was much more of a hobbyist sport. We were still a bunch of racers, but we were also mechanics. One of the guys I rode with had a full Campy tool kit, which even back then cost a boat load -- and basically everyone had a truing stand. You would debate 3X versus 4X or high flange versus low flange, tying and soldering etc., etc. Now it is just picking a brand and a model.


Jay is taking his first steps toward retro-grouchery!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #19  
Old June 4th 21, 05:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Truing Stand

On 6/4/2021 10:26 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It’s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.


You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here 45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou




No matter where you are, we're your closest bike shop more
often than not.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #20  
Old June 4th 21, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Truing Stand

On 6/4/2021 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2021 9:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2021 2:16 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay
us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small
problem as a stripped torx head? I would have to drive to
Amsterdam. How long did you take to solve that?

Lou


A minute or two.


I often have to remind myself that most people are baffled
by simple mechanics.

But the 110 miles still sounds amazing. I can envision that
in, say, South Dakota, but even there it seems unlikely. I
can't imagine that was necessary in Wisconsin.



Wander in to a strip mall type bike shop with your Ergo 12
bicycle and discuss simple maintenance and repair. We're
not all that far away.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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