Truing Stand

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:17:32 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

If you use a truing stand all day long (our main unit is 50+
years old, purchased used, rebuilt a few times) money spent
on good tools is a cost saver. For home use, not so much.

--
Andrew Muzi

True. I have more good tools than I can justify. They are a joy to use when I do use them. But I frequently think about their cost and whether it made/makes sense to own them. Kind of like the very frequent discussions we have on this forum about fat old men buying $10,000 Specialized or Trek Tour de France racing bikes. Logic and reason tells one side and emotion or craziness tells the other side.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:16:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.
Wow someone drives 110 miles (=116 km) to solve a small problem as a stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you take to solve that?

Lou

You think 110 miles equals 116 kilometers? I know in Europe they use the Metric system for weights and distances. And probably in school they don't bother to teach conversions because 98% of the rest of the world uses the Metric system. But your conversion is off quite a bit. 1 kilometer equals 0.624 miles. So 110 miles is about 176 kilometers. 352 kilometer round trip for Andy's customer.

Oh wait. I just saw your 116 again and realize maybe you meant to type 176 and the 1 looked like a 7 and you did not catch the mistake. If so throw away what I just wrote above.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 10:12:35 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Another case in point is the original DAG-1: https://tinyurl.com/eanf7zx5 That tip is too fat and stubby for through-axle derailleur hangers, and thus the new tool:
https://www.parktool.com/product/der...nt-gauge-dag-3

I have that Park rear derailleur hanger. I don't have any through axle wheels so don't notice the deficiencies from the new model.




BTW, I built my first wheel in '75-76 at a beaten-down neighborhood bike shop run primarily as a frame-building shop. I was friends with the owner, and he enlisted me to lace a wheel for one of his customers while he did something else, so he told me what to do, and I did it. Sutherland manual for figuring out spoke length (with all the typical pencil and pen marginal notes for weird rims and hubs), no tensiometers (feeling other wheels) and an old VAR stand. They were Robergel trois etoile, which was high zoot at the time. Once I got good at it, I was doing over-flow for the shop, which is why I bought the stand.

Got my first and only truing stand from my brother about 30 years ago. He bought a new Park truing stand so I took the old one. Very simple old stand from the early 80s or late 70s. Its worked good enough for me over the decades. I've built a few wheels with it but I'm not in the wheel building business so minimal use.




And going even further down memory lane, this was in a period of time when cycling was much more of a hobbyist sport. We were still a bunch of racers, but we were also mechanics. One of the guys I rode with had a full Campy tool kit, which even back then cost a boat load -- and basically everyone had a truing stand. You would debate 3X versus 4X or high flange versus low flange, tying and soldering etc., etc. Now it is just picking a brand and a model.

I remember those discussions about 3 and 4 cross lacing. Heads in or out for the pulling spokes. Low and high flange hubs. Never did the tying and soldering though. That was old time racer stuff. But all the rest was very relevant to me. And today all that is a forgotten historic foreign language to almost every bicyclist in the past 25 years.




-- Jay Beattie.

Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles (6 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


Its even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here
45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou

Lou, could you even drive 110 miles in a straight line without ending up in
the ocean or a different country?

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 12:25:45 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles ( 6 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here
45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou
Lou, could you even drive 110 miles in a straight line without ending up in
the ocean or a different country?
If he included the Sands at low water.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:25:45 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles ( 6 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here
45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou
Lou, could you even drive 110 miles in a straight line without ending up in
the ocean or a different country?

Good point. I just checked. If I drive 3 km East I end up in Germany, if I drive 33 km SouthEast I end up in Belgium, if I drive 155 km NorthWest I end up in the North-see. Living in the South of the Netherlands my best shot is going North, but after 228 km I also get wet feet.

Lou

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 1:58:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:25:45 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles ( 6 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here
45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou
Lou, could you even drive 110 miles in a straight line without ending up in
the ocean or a different country?
Good point. I just checked. If I drive 3 km East I end up in Germany, if I drive 33 km SouthEast I end up in Belgium, if I drive 155 km NorthWest I end up in the North-see. Living in the South of the Netherlands my best shot is going North, but after 228 km I also get wet feet.

Lou

Meanwhile, in Oregon/Nevada: https://i.imgur.com/44YsRI2.jpeg If I ride a mile and a half east and miss the bridge alignment, I'll end up in water -- but not a sea. Two bike lanes going west! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY4e...nel=DerekWeber Before the bridge was replaced, you had to thread your way down a super narrow sidewalk (if you were a chicken) or take the lane and suffer through all the horn honkers and close passers.

Same bridge with the color jacked-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMTJ...JagsRamnarayan

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 3:31:17 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 1:58:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:25:45 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles ( 6 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here
45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou
Lou, could you even drive 110 miles in a straight line without ending up in
the ocean or a different country?
Good point. I just checked. If I drive 3 km East I end up in Germany, if I drive 33 km SouthEast I end up in Belgium, if I drive 155 km NorthWest I end up in the North-see. Living in the South of the Netherlands my best shot is going North, but after 228 km I also get wet feet.

Lou
Meanwhile, in Oregon/Nevada: https://i.imgur.com/44YsRI2.jpeg If I ride a mile and a half east and miss the bridge alignment, I'll end up in water -- but not a sea. Two bike lanes going west! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY4e...nel=DerekWeber Before the bridge was replaced, you had to thread your way down a super narrow sidewalk (if you were a chicken) or take the lane and suffer through all the horn honkers and close passers..

Same bridge with the color jacked-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMTJ...JagsRamnarayan

Is that the Columbia below that bridge?

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 12:03:10 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 3:31:17 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 1:58:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:25:45 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 4:11:59 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 2:17:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

of an aluminum torx nut, "What Tork drivers do you use?" We
use Snap On. He noted that they are expensive. Well, yes,
they are.

But now he's going to drive 110 miles each way and pay us to
solve the problem of his 'economy' tool.

Wow someone drives 110 miles ( 6 km) to solve a small problem as a
stripped torx head? I would have to drive to Amsterdam. How long did you
take to solve that?

Lou


It s even worse. 110 miles = 177 km.

You are correct, it was a typo. 354 km is half a tank of gas, over here
45 euro and a 3-4 hour around trip. Pff...Andrew must be good.

Lou
Lou, could you even drive 110 miles in a straight line without ending up in
the ocean or a different country?
Good point. I just checked. If I drive 3 km East I end up in Germany, if I drive 33 km SouthEast I end up in Belgium, if I drive 155 km NorthWest I end up in the North-see. Living in the South of the Netherlands my best shot is going North, but after 228 km I also get wet feet.

Lou
Meanwhile, in Oregon/Nevada: https://i.imgur.com/44YsRI2.jpeg If I ride a mile and a half east and miss the bridge alignment, I'll end up in water -- but not a sea. Two bike lanes going west! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY4e...nel=DerekWeber Before the bridge was replaced, you had to thread your way down a super narrow sidewalk (if you were a chicken) or take the lane and suffer through all the horn honkers and close passers.

Same bridge with the color jacked-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMTJ...JagsRamnarayan
Is that the Columbia below that bridge?

Willamette. This is my Columbia pictu https://photos.app.goo.gl/L2cvGGYdXZgknRdC7 (shot from my saddle). That's down the Gorge. Up the Gorge by PDX, it is far less picturesque -- flood plain, shipping channel, airport. This island is at the confluence of the Willamette and Columbia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sGx8Lh9jMs Flat loop around farmland that everyone uses as a TT course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SLV...erCityBicycles

The Sauvie Island Shootout is a pick-up race -- ride out to the island then throttle yourself doing two laps around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP1L...llejtmnoxville Its a cruise from downtown, but after the bridge (1:32), race is on. I got shelled the last time I did that ride. Its a little unnerving being in an unknown pack, so I spent as much time as possible on my son's wheel, but that only lasted so long. At least we got to ride home together. That ride is totally ad hoc -- no clubs, sign-ins or anything. Its like a weekly version of the Ronde PDX, which is the same sort of thing.

-- Jay Beattie

On 2021-06-04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 8:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally build wheels now
(when employees are 'too good' for some jobs and some customers).Â* The
result is the same.Â* Although a stand with good lighting can be more
convenient it's not essential.

I built my first wheel riding in a VW van during the long drive to the
airport for our first overseas bike tour. I used the inverted bike frame
as the truing stand.

Those were the days!

Did you use Jobst's book to do the lacing, Robert Wright's "Wright-built"
technique or are you just a super-genius who figured it out on his own?

I got loand the 'wright built' pamphlet by a coworker and used it to do the
lacing on my rims. I never used Jobst's published technique, but it look
like his way would have avoided the spoke weaving I had to do for the last
course of spokes.

The tensioning process was always tough...getting the 'hop' out.

I always took care to turn each nipple the same amount before tension began
being appreciable, but, still....

I ended up with a good result but I sure don't feel like natural.

How many spokes were your wheels? As a Clydesdale I do 40 in front and 48
in back.

pH in Aptos