Where "Safety Inflation" leads

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 8:49:45 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/10/2019 12:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

So, as I mentioned above, they're putting these thing in places that prevent the buses from pulling to the curb, which creates danger chutes with passengers wandering across the bicycle traffic lane to get on and off the baus. Last night, I was headed down one of those chutes and a car was pulled across it and stopped, waiting to enter a parking garage. A rat maze with a stopper in it -- with really no safety benefit since a car can roll right over the plastic posts/pickets The existing bike lanes were perfectly fine without additional obstacles. It also makes cleaning impossible, and even before heavy leaf season or snow and gravel season, these little chutes are filling with crap.

There are machines designed to clean protected bike lanes. Clearly
Portland hasn't purchased these yet.

No, nor has it purchased ponies for the kiddies. I am reminded of this Bazooka bubble gum cartoon: http://www.bazookajoecomics.com/1972/72-454-74.jpg The City answer to this problem would be "buy a protective eye patch." And actually we have little street sweepers, but not little enough.

If you saw these picketed areas you would wonder why they exist -- except to create additional obstacles for bicycles, motor vehicles and the existing inventory of expensive street cleaning equipment.

In the next month, I will be riding through wet leaf heaps that will turn into slime moguls. Even in areas without pickets or barriers, they will sit for weeks or months until swept. I'm already skittering around in unswept chestnuts and liquidambar balls. https://bikeportland.org/2018/11/08/...sweeper-291899 Then snow and gravel -- because we don't like salt. The gravel will sit forever and longer in the chutes, until natural attenuation occurs. And what safety improvement is there? Cars can drive right over these plastic wands and do with some frequency. https://bikeportland.org/2016/01/04/...at-clay-171393

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/11/2019 11:49 AM, sms wrote:
On 10/10/2019 12:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

So, as I mentioned above, they're putting these thing in places that
prevent the buses from pulling to the curb, which creates danger
chutes with passengers wandering across the bicycle traffic lane to
get on and off the baus.Â* Last night, I was headed down one of those
chutes and a car was pulled across it and stopped, waiting to enter a
parking garage. A rat maze with a stopper in it -- with really no
safety benefit since a car can roll right over the plastic
posts/pickets The existing bike lanes were perfectly fine without
additional obstacles. It also makes cleaning impossible, and even
before heavy leaf season or snow and gravel season, these little
chutes are filling with crap.

There are machines designed to clean protected bike lanes. Clearly
Portland hasn't purchased these yet.

I believe that's true in most cities that installed so-called "protected
bike lanes." It's certainly true of a city near me. The responsible
official was embarrassed by the question, after having bragged about the
lanes to an official from another city.

The typical city that installs one of these booby traps runs it only for
a couple blocks - just enough for bragging rights. They then feel it
makes no sense to spend many thousands of dollars for special equipment
just to keep that short booby trap usable.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 4:26:10 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 09.10.2019 um 18:21 schrieb Sir Ridesalot:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 09:44:51 UTC-4, Steve Weeks wrote:

Of course, it would also be nice to see some action on cars parked
in or driving down bike lanes, and other unsafe and illegal
practices. I'm not holding my breath. At least no one is snatching
my bike while I'm riding it!

I was riding along a side street in a city near to me and came to a
cross street that had a sign ONE WAY Bicycles Excepted. No to me
that's a pretty stupid thing to do since any automobile entering that
one way street would NOT be expecting a bicyclist to turn up that
street going what the automobile driver would think is the wrong way.
It's a brilliant setup for an accident waiting to happen.

In Germany, that's the most normal thing of the world. In Heidelberg,
we have a one-way street with 2,500 cyclists per day and direction, and
a few hundred cars per day.

Before introducing these streets, car-lovers moaned about the unsafe
operation of this but specifically in narrow one-lane streets there is
no problem at all:

the car driver is going 20 mph, sees an oncoming cyclist and pulls a
bit towards the right.

I believe that was not a single head-on accident reported in the 15
years this has been possible in Germany.

In the last few years, they tend to mark a short contraflow lane at some
junctions, e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/Ue7HRi26vBqdLyPM8.

Rolf - stop reporting facts. You'll upset Kragowski.

On Friday, 11 October 2019 12:47:36 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/11/2019 11:49 AM, sms wrote:
On 10/10/2019 12:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

So, as I mentioned above, they're putting these thing in places that
prevent the buses from pulling to the curb, which creates danger
chutes with passengers wandering across the bicycle traffic lane to
get on and off the baus.Â* Last night, I was headed down one of those
chutes and a car was pulled across it and stopped, waiting to enter a
parking garage. A rat maze with a stopper in it -- with really no
safety benefit since a car can roll right over the plastic
posts/pickets The existing bike lanes were perfectly fine without
additional obstacles. It also makes cleaning impossible, and even
before heavy leaf season or snow and gravel season, these little
chutes are filling with crap.

There are machines designed to clean protected bike lanes. Clearly
Portland hasn't purchased these yet.

I believe that's true in most cities that installed so-called "protected
bike lanes." It's certainly true of a city near me. The responsible
official was embarrassed by the question, after having bragged about the
lanes to an official from another city.

The typical city that installs one of these booby traps runs it only for
a couple blocks - just enough for bragging rights. They then feel it
makes no sense to spend many thousands of dollars for special equipment
just to keep that short booby trap usable.

--
- Frank Krygowski

But segregated bicycle lanes are FANTASTIC places to push the snow from the main traffic lane(s)to.

Cheers

On 10/11/2019 12:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 4:26:10 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 09.10.2019 um 18:21 schrieb Sir Ridesalot:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 09:44:51 UTC-4, Steve Weeks wrote:

Of course, it would also be nice to see some action on cars parked
in or driving down bike lanes, and other unsafe and illegal
practices. I'm not holding my breath. At least no one is snatching
my bike while I'm riding it!

I was riding along a side street in a city near to me and came to a
cross street that had a sign ONE WAY Bicycles Excepted. No to me
that's a pretty stupid thing to do since any automobile entering that
one way street would NOT be expecting a bicyclist to turn up that
street going what the automobile driver would think is the wrong way.
It's a brilliant setup for an accident waiting to happen.

In Germany, that's the most normal thing of the world. In Heidelberg,
we have a one-way street with 2,500 cyclists per day and direction, and
a few hundred cars per day.

Before introducing these streets, car-lovers moaned about the unsafe
operation of this but specifically in narrow one-lane streets there is
no problem at all:

the car driver is going 20 mph, sees an oncoming cyclist and pulls a
bit towards the right.

I believe that was not a single head-on accident reported in the 15
years this has been possible in Germany.

In the last few years, they tend to mark a short contraflow lane at some
junctions, e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/Ue7HRi26vBqdLyPM8.

Rolf - stop reporting facts. You'll upset Kragowski.

Tom, Rolf's post agreed with what I said.

Jeez, get a grip! Take your meds!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 8:49:45 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/10/2019 12:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

So, as I mentioned above, they're putting these thing in places that prevent the buses from pulling to the curb, which creates danger chutes with passengers wandering across the bicycle traffic lane to get on and off the baus. Last night, I was headed down one of those chutes and a car was pulled across it and stopped, waiting to enter a parking garage. A rat maze with a stopper in it -- with really no safety benefit since a car can roll right over the plastic posts/pickets The existing bike lanes were perfectly fine without additional obstacles. It also makes cleaning impossible, and even before heavy leaf season or snow and gravel season, these little chutes are filling with crap.

There are machines designed to clean protected bike lanes. Clearly
Portland hasn't purchased these yet.

No, nor has it purchased ponies for the kiddies. I am reminded of this Bazooka bubble gum cartoon: http://www.bazookajoecomics.com/1972/72-454-74.jpg The City answer to this problem would be "buy a protective eye patch." And actually we have little street sweepers, but not little enough.

If you saw these picketed areas you would wonder why they exist -- except to create additional obstacles for bicycles, motor vehicles and the existing inventory of expensive street cleaning equipment.

In the next month, I will be riding through wet leaf heaps that will turn into slime moguls. Even in areas without pickets or barriers, they will sit for weeks or months until swept. I'm already skittering around in unswept chestnuts and liquidambar balls. https://bikeportland.org/2018/11/08/...sweeper-291899 Then snow and gravel -- because we don't like salt. The gravel will sit forever and longer in the chutes, until natural attenuation occurs. And what safety improvement is there? Cars can drive right over these plastic wands and do with some frequency. https://bikeportland.org/2016/01/04/...at-clay-171393

-- Jay Beattie.

Give the homeless a broom and tell them that if they don't sweep they
don't eat as all future food stamps will be issued based on area
swept. Un-American I know but it would result in clean bicycle paths
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:58:29 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 4:26:10 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 09.10.2019 um 18:21 schrieb Sir Ridesalot:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 09:44:51 UTC-4, Steve Weeks wrote:

Of course, it would also be nice to see some action on cars parked
in or driving down bike lanes, and other unsafe and illegal
practices. I'm not holding my breath. At least no one is snatching
my bike while I'm riding it!

I was riding along a side street in a city near to me and came to a
cross street that had a sign ONE WAY Bicycles Excepted. No to me
that's a pretty stupid thing to do since any automobile entering that
one way street would NOT be expecting a bicyclist to turn up that
street going what the automobile driver would think is the wrong way.
It's a brilliant setup for an accident waiting to happen.

In Germany, that's the most normal thing of the world. In Heidelberg,
we have a one-way street with 2,500 cyclists per day and direction, and
a few hundred cars per day.

Before introducing these streets, car-lovers moaned about the unsafe
operation of this but specifically in narrow one-lane streets there is
no problem at all:

the car driver is going 20 mph, sees an oncoming cyclist and pulls a
bit towards the right.

I believe that was not a single head-on accident reported in the 15
years this has been possible in Germany.

In the last few years, they tend to mark a short contraflow lane at some
junctions, e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/Ue7HRi26vBqdLyPM8.

Rolf - stop reporting facts. You'll upset Kragowski.

Kragowski? Who is this Kragowski? Oh, I see! You didn't know how to
spell.

Perhaps your illiteracy is one of the reasons that you can't find a
job.

--
cheers,

John B.

On 10/11/2019 9:39 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

No, nor has it purchased ponies for the kiddies.

That's a shame. Kids love ponies.

And actually we have little street sweepers, but not little enough.

Contact your public works department and complain.

If you saw these picketed areas you would wonder why they exist -- except to create additional obstacles for bicycles, motor vehicles and the existing inventory of expensive street cleaning equipment.

Actually I know why they exist, I don't have to wonder.

On 10/12/2019 11:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:39 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

No, nor has it purchased ponies for the kiddies.

That's a shame. Kids love ponies.

And actually we have little street sweepers, but not little enough.

Contact your public works department and complain.

That's an astonishing comment coming from a city mayor. Is Scharf (AKA
"sms") pretending that all it takes is a citizen complaint to cause a
city to spend many thousands for new equipment, thousands more for
additional manpower and planning and scheduling? What a fairy tale!

And BTW, I'm disappointed in Portland. Many, many years ago on one visit
out there, I rode in a bike lane that had considerable debris. I
contacted some PDX bike organization and the guy I talked with portrayed
the problem as very rare. He said there was a post card system, where a
person described the location of bike lane debris and claimed it would
get swept the next day. At the time, I actually believed him.

Years later, riding into the city from the west, we encountered so much
trash in bike lanes we actually laughed about it. Some bike lane
apologist said "Well, that was outside the city limits." And it may have
been.

But I still thought Portland did a decent job of sweeping. I guess I was
wrong. (I haven't visited in autumn or winter. I'm not a fan of chilly
rain.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 9:28:11 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/12/2019 11:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:39 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

No, nor has it purchased ponies for the kiddies.

That's a shame. Kids love ponies.

And actually we have little street sweepers, but not little enough.

Contact your public works department and complain.

That's an astonishing comment coming from a city mayor. Is Scharf (AKA
"sms") pretending that all it takes is a citizen complaint to cause a
city to spend many thousands for new equipment, thousands more for
additional manpower and planning and scheduling? What a fairy tale!

And BTW, I'm disappointed in Portland. Many, many years ago on one visit
out there, I rode in a bike lane that had considerable debris. I
contacted some PDX bike organization and the guy I talked with portrayed
the problem as very rare. He said there was a post card system, where a
person described the location of bike lane debris and claimed it would
get swept the next day. At the time, I actually believed him.

Years later, riding into the city from the west, we encountered so much
trash in bike lanes we actually laughed about it. Some bike lane
apologist said "Well, that was outside the city limits." And it may have
been.

But I still thought Portland did a decent job of sweeping. I guess I was
wrong. (I haven't visited in autumn or winter. I'm not a fan of chilly
rain.)


Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally speaking, he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get swept very infrequently. This is North Portland, but typical: https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg Wait until those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and landscapers love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or not. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

OT, but I've been skating on chestnut shells lately. I was set into a corner and hit a bunch of chestnuts and about went down last week. I was in the cemetery that gets swept with a tractor -- as fixie dope discovers at 3:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_jDIuRBEP0 The trees are out to kill us!

-- Jay Beattie.