the disturbing conspiracy of the bicycling elite

ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
[...] and anyone who's been to India[na]
in the past few years knows why they strongly recommend foreigners
hire a driver.

I fixed Mike's post.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message
...
On Aug 31, 6:50 pm, "ZBicyclist" wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
.... But somehow you miss WHY the Londoners can enjoy such a bike
paradise and America can't: their drivers and traffic laws. The UK
has
one of the safest driving records in the world, something hard to
say
about America.

Indeed it does, by this
measurehttp://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-mult...

The US is well down the list, at 40th.

Of course, there's a couple of quirks in using per capita
fatalities. India comes in at 16th, and anyone who's been to India
in the past few years knows why they strongly recommend foreigners
hire a driver.

--
Mike Krugerhttp://mikekr.blogspot.com/

Gee, I better ride a bike in India.

Please do go ride a bike in India, or better yet in China.

China has the highest road death rate in the world and India is second.

someone wrote:

.... But somehow you miss WHY the Londoners can enjoy such a bike
paradise and America can't: their drivers and traffic laws. The UK
has one of the safest driving records in the world, something hard
to say about America.

Indeed it does, by this measu

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/inf...ics/stats-mult...

The US is well down the list, at 40th.

Of course, there's a couple of quirks in using per capita
fatalities. Â*India comes in at 16th, and anyone who's been to India
in the past few years knows why they strongly recommend foreigners
hire a driver.

I found this reference interesting and fitting well with my experience
riding bike for several days in London (England). I found both car
drivers and bicyclists more skilled and tolerant of one another than I
have found anywhere in the USA. Beyond that, when encountering
traffic signs and signals, following a pragmatic course of violating
their regulation was accepted by both drivers and pedestrians who
seemed to be far more tolerant than in the USA.

London bicyclists had a lot of bike messenger skills common in big
cities in the US, and drivers, especially those of large double decker
articulated buses, highly skilled in passing bicyclists on narrow
one-way streets that were originally two lanes but now have three, with
a Bus/Taxi/Bike lane on the left.

After reading the "three foot" passing law discussion here, I realized
that none of those in favor of such a proposal would be able to ride in
London. Passing there is reliably less than one foot clearance.
There just is no more room than that.

Gee, I better ride a bike in India.

That all depends on how drivers and bikies in India "share the road".

Jobst Brandt

ComandanteBanana wrote:
-various stuff-

Yep.
Anyway, uhh,,, back to me.

I expect it depends a lot on local conditions how practical bicycling as
transportation is. At the moment I live quite close to my job and on
days when traffic is really bad I can actually bike to work faster than
I can drive. Most people don't live reasonably close. And I even only do
it when the weather's nice, which isn't all year long.

-----

In practical terms I think that the mid-size town I currently live in
(50K pop) could do more to encourage bicycling by placing bicycle racks
in the business district than they would by painting bike lanes on some
of the streets.

-----

I doubt it really matters if you bother to minimize use of resources
while living in a big city, because of the fact that living in an urban
environment is inherently inefficient anyway, and does little to
encourage what meager conservation is possible. Riding a bicycle or a
bus instead of driving mainly relates to the fact that there's not
enough spaces to conveniently park a car--it doesn't mean anything with
regard to environmental benefits.
~

On Sep 1, 3:55*pm, "Jack May" wrote:
"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...
On Aug 31, 6:50 pm, "ZBicyclist" wrote:





ComandanteBanana wrote:
.... But somehow you miss WHY the Londoners can enjoy such a bike
paradise and America can't: their drivers and traffic laws. The UK
has
one of the safest driving records in the world, something hard to
say
about America.

Indeed it does, by this
measurehttp://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-mult...

The US is well down the list, at 40th.

Of course, there's a couple of quirks in using per capita
fatalities. India comes in at 16th, and anyone who's been to India
in the past few years knows why they strongly recommend foreigners
hire a driver.

--
Mike Krugerhttp://mikekr.blogspot.com/

Gee, I better ride a bike in India.

Please do go ride a bike in India, or better yet in China.

China has the highest road death rate in the world and India is second.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You wouldn't catch me in China as they want to be like Americans and
drive big fat SUVs. It usually happens when people is forced
(something common under communism) to do something for so long (riding
a bike) and then they crave for something else. Probably many
Americans feel the same way about driving...

As for India, I already feel like I'm there... With their caste
system, you get used to feel like an outcast by riding a bike in
America. I think they call them "untouchables" or something.

(If it sounds like jungle talk, it's because we are talking about
survival)

Originally Posted by SSP

- Learn to ride a bike.
- Get involved with local cycling advocacy groups.

....

It sounds like teaching the gazelle to survive among the lions...

What's the best advice?

"Never let the guard down."

"Stay away from the bushes."

"Never **** the lion."

"Look at the lion in the eye, etc."

But how can a cyclist outrun a car the way the gazelle can outrun a
lion?

I think whether you survive or not on a bike depends more on dumb luck
than driving skills. Is the stupid driver on the phone? Is his
oversized SUV too big to fit in one lane together with your bike?

Getting involved with the local advocacy groups, you mean the ones the
cooperate with the system and are willing to wait 50 years to get bike
facilities... or something rather wild like Critical Mass?

I think there are better alternatives out there. And it's coming
soon...

(the monkeys are getting organized)

On Sep 1, 6:13*pm, wrote:
someone wrote:
.... But somehow you miss WHY the Londoners can enjoy such a bike
paradise and America can't: their drivers and traffic laws. The UK
has one of the safest driving records in the world, something hard
to say about America.
Indeed it does, by this measu

*http://www.driveandstayalive.com/inf...ics/stats-mult....

The US is well down the list, at 40th.
Of course, there's a couple of quirks in using per capita
fatalities. *India comes in at 16th, and anyone who's been to India
in the past few years knows why they strongly recommend foreigners
hire a driver.

I found this reference interesting and fitting well with my experience
riding bike for several days in London (England). *I found both car
drivers and bicyclists more skilled and tolerant of one another than I
have found anywhere in the USA. *Beyond that, when encountering
traffic signs and signals, following a pragmatic course of violating
their regulation was accepted by both drivers and pedestrians who
seemed to be far more tolerant than in the USA.

I think in the USA (United Selfish of America) things are hard to
coordinate since everybody is taught to be selfish, but since driving
must be a coordinated effort in order to work, then what you get is a
jungle where everybody must try to survive by being bigger not
smarter.

So the bicycle may be smarter but still is at the bottom of the food
chain.

I mean, it's just a thought.

On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Jym Dyer wrote:
Don Quixote/No Lion No Problem/ComandanteBanana writes:

You wouldn't catch me in China as they want to be like
Americans and drive big fat SUVs.

=v= There has been an increase in motor vehicle use, which
the American press has portrayed in negative, fearful ways
(which they've never done about an increase in American motor
vehicle use, go figure). Typical of you to zero in on the
fear and notice nothing else.

=v= But in fact the bicycle remains #1 in China even with
the recent increase in car ownership, and the transportation
infrastructure reflects that fact much better than America's.

It usually happens when people is forced (something common
under communism) to do something for so long (riding a bike)
and then they crave for something else.

=v= Again, typical of you to present "reasons" for something
that's not really happening in the way you think that it is.
_Jym_

Hey, are you defending communism or capitalism? It seems hard to tell
sometimes, as globalization tends to unite them in making the "little
fish" (the guy on the bike) kind of out style if not fair game for the
top predators (those who can afford the SUVs).

I think the only ones still promoting bikes are the Europeans, no? At
least cyclists don't seem to feel like an outcast (a loser in the
globalization game) like in India. Or maybe Europe is losing at this
game, kind of early to tell.

But I think the more sucessful the SUVs are, the more global warming
they create, and the more hurrricanes they produce, so I think the
winners would be the biggest losers.

I don't know, but I feel like getting under my bed in light of the 4
hurricanes coming at us from the Atlantic...

(Just in the news that Gustav cost $10 billion to America. Like the
saying says, "What goes around comes around.")

This guy is telling it like it is, but I'd like to add my own colorful
language...

Originally Posted by Bekologist
the particulars of any one bike lane design is not the focus of this
thread I started.

I am critical of obstructionists that stand in the way of any and all
bike specific on road infrastructure. these people are out there.

there is a loosely organized collective of EC pablum pushers that are
doing a disservice to american bicycling and retarding bike mode
share.

50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes are not bringing bicyclists to the
roads - despite there being 'room for bikes and cars to share lanes'
and keeping right of way MORE ambiguous at intersection approaches...

if you do not want to see bike riding increase in this country, the
status quo of autocentric roads and dangerous road conditions seem to
be your counterpoint.

goodonya, but some of us see the capabilities of redesign of american
streetscapes to be friendlier to peds, bikes, and people using limited
mobility devices.

***

Hey, I'm all the way with you. But it won't happen because it's all
about money, and money is the language of globalization.

Some of the cylists here are elitists and they won't side with the
monkey on the bike. They hate monkeys and democracy is just
camouflage, so to speak.

Our job is to expose the predator and keep on surviving in the
jungle.

"The wild, cruel beast is not behind the bars of the cage. He is in
front of it" -Axel Munthe

Forgive the metaphors, but monkeys --the common people-- prefer
colorful language.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Riding a bike costs peanuts --which is why monkeys love biking"

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote88

"Jack May" wrote in message
. ..

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message
...
On Aug 31, 6:50 pm, "ZBicyclist" wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
.... But somehow you miss WHY the Londoners can enjoy such a bike
paradise and America can't: their drivers and traffic laws. The UK
has
one of the safest driving records in the world, something hard to
say
about America.

Indeed it does, by this
measurehttp://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-mult...

The US is well down the list, at 40th.

Of course, there's a couple of quirks in using per capita
fatalities. India comes in at 16th, and anyone who's been to India
in the past few years knows why they strongly recommend foreigners
hire a driver.

--
Mike Krugerhttp://mikekr.blogspot.com/

Gee, I better ride a bike in India.

Please do go ride a bike in India, or better yet in China.

China has the highest road death rate in the world and India is second.



I have ridden a bike in India. Quite interesting, really. I also had a
small motorcycle, and that really is quite dangerous. But I was young, and
everyone rode a bike, and there really were no alternatives. I had my wife
and two babies on the motorcycle, by the way, just like a true resident of
India. One child sat between us and one was in a carrier on my wife's back.
Those who had scooters had the children stand in front of them!!!.