Oh well, there goes the honey

On 11 Mar, 10:11, Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 10, 9:29 pm, Still Just Me
wrote:

Just because Brooks marketing and sales tells you that you need to buy
a pricy can of Proofhyde from them doesn't make it true.

"Can" of Proofide? Unfortunately not. It's a tiny flat tin about an
inch and a bit across, 40g, for a higher price than half a litre of
neatsfoot oil that has been good enough for the saddles of Her
Majesty's Household Cavalry for more than two centuries. The
photographs of the Proofide tin always make it seem much, much
bigger... -- AJ

So what is the magic in a proofide tin that I cant get from a non
pigmented shoe wax or polish? I know people have used Mr Sheen which
is synthetic.
TJ

On Mar 10, 1:57*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Soaked my honey-coloured Brooks B73 and matching grips in half a litre
of best quality neatsfoot oil a la Sheldon Brown. Both instant went
dark brown.

Yep. The nice Brooks Honey color turns dark brown as soon as you use
it or put oil on it. Using it darkens it fastest. I've always
thought Proofide or minksfoot oil (both paste) works best. Neatsfoot
oil seemed to soften the leather a bit too much. The Proofide and
minksfoot could be worked into the leather by riding the saddle. I
also think the paste provides a better barrier against water on the
underside of the saddle.





My wife thinks the dark brown suits the British Racing
Green with gold coachlines on my bike better than the pale tan Brooks
calls "honey".

The grips can wait to be fitted when they won't spread that stuff over
everything -- it is hell to get neatsfoot oil *off* anything once it
is on it.

But I rode out a while on the B73, which I bought on reviews and the
nostalgic memory of the same saddle on Raleigh roadsters in my youth
-- or at least Sheldon's memory. The three coil springs of the seat
compliment my Big Apple tyres, and between the tyres and the springs
the few irregularities I found to take at speed were reduced in the
same way as the most controlled suspension seatpost I own. The Brooks
B73 is thus comfortable before the leather even acquires compliance
with my anatomy. Where is where we came in: a fellow on the net said
the B73 is the most comfortable of the several Brooks saddles he owns.

I can however imagine that racers (modern ones -- the B73 started life
as a *racing* saddle) and self-declared "efficiency experts" would be
horrified at the amount of sideways movement the front coil spring
permits when you push your hand against it, far more than downwards
movement of the seat unless you press really very hard. However, on
the bike and riding fast on a curvy lane I didn't notice any lack of
lateral control, though admittedly I've just come from five years on
the hornless Cheeko90 so what would I care about lateral control... I
think it is an irrelevance, a post facto excuse for the horn.

All in all, first impressions of the Brooks B73 are favourable. We'll
see what I think if I manage to get in the 22km ride I'm planning
tomorrow if the weather holds.

Andre Jute
*http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich....

On Mar 11, 5:01 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 10, 7:51 pm, Chalo wrote:

landotter wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

Soaked my honey-coloured Brooks B73 and matching grips in half a litre
of best quality neatsfoot oil.

That would be idiotic. Enjoy your ruined saddle.

Idiotic?

Landotter seems to think a Brooks saddle is an object of veneration.[

[drivelsnip]

Seems? Really? I actually don't like Brooks at all--but I understand
how oil breaks down the hammock effect and ruins new saddles. There
are great nylon shelled saddles these days if Brooks are too firm for
you. By the looks of your bikes and your abuse of Brooks--the thinner
varieties which should be comfy after just a few miles--you're
insisting on the wrong saddle for your butt, and compensating with
suspension post and other absurdities--for the sake of tradtional
dogmatism, and arrogant nostalgia.

On Mar 11, 9:44 am, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 11 Mar, 10:11, Andre Jute wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:29 pm, Still Just Me
wrote:
Just because Brooks marketing and sales tells you that you need to buy
a pricy can of Proofhyde from them doesn't make it true.

"Can" of Proofide? Unfortunately not. It's a tiny flat tin about an
inch and a bit across, 40g, for a higher price than half a litre of
neatsfoot oil that has been good enough for the saddles of Her
Majesty's Household Cavalry for more than two centuries. The
photographs of the Proofide tin always make it seem much, much
bigger... -- AJ

So what is the magic in a proofide tin that I cant get from a non
pigmented shoe wax or polish? I know people have used Mr Sheen which
is synthetic.
TJ


All you need to protect the top of a Brooks saddle ridden on a
fendered bike is something simple like cheap clear shoe wax polish.
Pledge would probably be fine as well. Or do nothing and just put a
trash bag on it if it rains.

On Mar 11, 3:59*pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 10, 1:57*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Soaked my honey-coloured Brooks B73 and matching grips in half a litre
of best quality neatsfoot oil a la Sheldon Brown. Both instant went
dark brown.

Yep. *The nice Brooks Honey color turns dark brown as soon as you use
it or put oil on it. *Using it darkens it fastest. *

Makes you wonder how all those people who show photographs of pristine
honey saddles on their bikes manage to ride them -- or if they do.

I've always
thought Proofide or minksfoot oil (both paste) works best. *Neatsfoot
oil seemed to soften the leather a bit too much. *

We'll find out. Whichever it is, I want the process to speed up before
I decide it isn't worth it and go back to the Cheeko90 noseless gel
seat, which has worked well for me.

The Proofide and
minksfoot could be worked into the leather by riding the saddle. *I
also think the paste provides a better barrier against water on the
underside of the saddle.

I'm planning on continuing with Proofide as a regular thing. I just
used the neatsfoot because Sheldon seems to promise breakin with
neatsfoot in 200 miles rather than 2000. I don't fancy a year of
discomfort!

Andre Jute
Artist. Even my bum is sensitive.


*My wife thinks the dark brown suits the British Racing

Green with gold coachlines on my bike better than the pale tan Brooks
calls "honey".

The grips can wait to be fitted when they won't spread that stuff over
everything -- it is hell to get neatsfoot oil *off* anything once it
is on it.

But I rode out a while on the B73, which I bought on reviews and the
nostalgic memory of the same saddle on Raleigh roadsters in my youth
-- or at least Sheldon's memory. The three coil springs of the seat
compliment my Big Apple tyres, and between the tyres and the springs
the few irregularities I found to take at speed were reduced in the
same way as the most controlled suspension seatpost I own. The Brooks
B73 is thus comfortable before the leather even acquires compliance
with my anatomy. Where is where we came in: a fellow on the net said
the B73 is the most comfortable of the several Brooks saddles he owns.

I can however imagine that racers (modern ones -- the B73 started life
as a *racing* saddle) and self-declared "efficiency experts" would be
horrified at the amount of sideways movement the front coil spring
permits when you push your hand against it, far more than downwards
movement of the seat unless you press really very hard. However, on
the bike and riding fast on a curvy lane I didn't notice any lack of
lateral control, though admittedly I've just come from five years on
the hornless Cheeko90 so what would I care about lateral control... I
think it is an irrelevance, a post facto excuse for the horn.

All in all, first impressions of the Brooks B73 are favourable. We'll
see what I think if I manage to get in the 22km ride I'm planning
tomorrow if the weather holds.

Andre Jute
*http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich...

On Mar 11, 4:05*pm, landotter wrote:
On Mar 11, 5:01 am, Andre Jute wrote:

On Mar 10, 7:51 pm, Chalo wrote:

landotter wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

Soaked my honey-coloured Brooks B73 and matching grips in half a litre
of best quality neatsfoot oil.

That would be idiotic. Enjoy your ruined saddle.

Idiotic?

Landotter seems to think a Brooks saddle is an object of veneration.[

[drivelsnip]

If you think I write drivel, why bother to snivel at my posts?

Seems? Really? I actually don't like Brooks at all

Okay. Then why explode so passionately when I did something thousands
of others have done before me? What is your problem, Ott?

--but I understand
how oil breaks down the hammock effect and ruins new saddles.

Okay, you're an expert. But Sheldon is a better expert and he says
different. I bet my money on Sheldon. Take it like a man. Do better
next time.

There
are great nylon shelled saddles these days if Brooks are too firm for
you.

We haven't decided yet that Brooks is too firm for me. Give the bloody
saddle a chance, man.

By the looks of your bikes and your abuse of Brooks--the thinner
varieties which should be comfy after just a few miles--you're
insisting on the wrong saddle for your butt, and compensating with
suspension post and other absurdities--for the sake of tradtional
dogmatism, and arrogant nostalgia.

There are about three dozen impertinent assumptions in that last
sentence, every one of them wrong, together with an equal number of
errors of fact. For a start, the Brooks saddle isn't on a bike with a
suspended seatpost. But why bother listing the rest of your errors?
You don't want facts, you just want to rant mindlessly at someone and
I happen to be handy.

Andre Jute
Beatify Sheldon now!

On Mar 11, 12:05*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 11, 3:59*pm, "

wrote:
On Mar 10, 1:57*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Soaked my honey-coloured Brooks B73 and matching grips in half a litre
of best quality neatsfoot oil a la Sheldon Brown. Both instant went
dark brown.

Yep. *The nice Brooks Honey color turns dark brown as soon as you use
it or put oil on it. *Using it darkens it fastest. *

Makes you wonder how all those people who show photographs of pristine
honey saddles on their bikes manage to ride them -- or if they do.

I've always
thought Proofide or minksfoot oil (both paste) works best. *Neatsfoot
oil seemed to soften the leather a bit too much. *

We'll find out. Whichever it is, I want the process to speed up before
I decide it isn't worth it and go back to the Cheeko90 noseless gel
seat, which has worked well for me.

The Proofide and
minksfoot could be worked into the leather by riding the saddle. *I
also think the paste provides a better barrier against water on the
underside of the saddle.

I'm planning on continuing with Proofide as a regular thing. I just
used the neatsfoot because Sheldon seems to promise breakin with
neatsfoot in 200 miles rather than 2000. I don't fancy a year of
discomfort!

A year of discomfort? I find Brooks saddles comfortable from mile
one. Maybe more comfortable after thousands of miles but comfortable
all along. Never understood where this break in period nonsense came
from. Likely from people who have never ridden a Brooks. How they
ever came to the idea that their hard plastic nylon carbon torture
contraption does not need a break in but a leather Brooks does is a
mystery.

On Mar 11, 2:44*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 11 Mar, 10:11, Andre Jute wrote:

On Mar 10, 9:29 pm, Still Just Me
wrote:
Just because Brooks marketing and sales tells you that you need to buy
a pricy can of Proofhyde from them doesn't make it true.

"Can" of Proofide? Unfortunately not. It's a tiny flat tin about an
inch and a bit across, 40g, for a higher price than half a litre of
neatsfoot oil that has been good enough for the saddles of Her
Majesty's Household Cavalry for more than two centuries. The
photographs of the Proofide tin always make it seem much, much
bigger... -- AJ

So what is the magic in a proofide tin that I cant get from a non
pigmented shoe wax or polish? *I know people have used Mr Sheen *which
is synthetic.
TJ

According to the tin, the ingredients of Proofide are tallow, cod oil,
vegetable oil, paraffin wax, beeswax, citronella oil.

Looks like you could knock up a makeshift in almost anyone's kitchen:
some lamb fat, cod liver oil from the medicine cabinet, olive oil, a
candle, some wax from your breakfast honey, and a dash of bug
repellant, which usually has citronella oil in it. However, it is
possible that the proportions have some magic, and the purity of the
ingredients might also have an influence.

The Proofide tin measures just under two inches diameter by three
quarters of an inch thick. In the States it sells for about fifteen
dollars.

I bought a service kit with my saddle, simply because I always buy all
the necessary specialist tools and consumptibles with everything I
order, to save buggering around later.

I have no idea if the Proofide is a rip -- trading on the mystique to
boost the profit margin when something else will do the same job at a
fraction of the price -- or a magic potion. I shall use it simply
because it comes from the same place as the saddle.

Andre Jute
That was a short rebellion

On 11 Mar, 17:21, "
wrote:

A year of discomfort? *I find Brooks saddles comfortable from mile
one. *Maybe more comfortable after thousands of miles but comfortable
all along. *Never understood where this break in period nonsense came
from. *Likely from people who have never ridden a Brooks. *How they
ever came to the idea that their hard plastic nylon carbon torture
contraption does not need a break in but a leather Brooks does is a
mystery.

A plastic saddle only gets worse with age. After 2-3 hours of riding,
my Regal is soft and hot. My Brooks racing saddle is perhaps a little
hard for the first half hour, is just right and stays cool after this
and so is superior than the plastic saddle for long rides. I remember
being told that the Rolls and the Regal were available for different
body weights and one of them was available with an adjustable
tensioner.
TJ

On 11 Mar, 16:07, landotter wrote:


All you need to protect the top of a Brooks saddle ridden on a
fendered bike is something simple like cheap clear shoe wax polish.
Pledge would probably be fine as well. Or do nothing and just put a
trash bag on it if it rains.

Precisley my understanding. So what's the magic in proofide?
Is it the tiny tin means you dont put too much on?
TJ