Cyclist visibility

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 11:41:00 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 7:20:06 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

But to make a long story short when returning home we overtook a group
of 7 cyclists. All Thai's they were correctly riding down the L.H.
side of the road as the law requires and they were flying flags.

Six of the seven were riding "road bikes" and one was riding (whatever
you call them) a road bike with straight handlebars. All seven were
wearing the usual black cycling shorts and what appeared to be
bicycling shoes and clipless pedals but instead of colorful jerseys
they were wearing sloppy white tee-shirts.

But what made them distinctive was that they each had a small "flag
pole" attached to the top of their helmets with a flag attached.

The interesting thing was that while the flags didn't make the riders
more visible from directly behind them but as they were overtaken they
became very noticeable (Guys with flags on their heads!)


As you said the flags on the helmet did not make them visible from behind. Just from the side when you already knew they were there. Not sure that counts as making them more visible. Visibility is yes-no, on-off, live-dead. There is not really any degree of visibility. If you see the cyclist, you see him. You cannot see him, visible, and then say I did not see him. You see him or you do not see him. So the flags on the helmet did not make the cyclist visible. You saw the cyclists from behind, knew they were there, drove beside them, and saw the flags on the helmet. The flags did not make the cyclist more visible from behind.


But one of the major complaints voiced here is a vehicle that "passed
too close to me". The flags make the cyclist much more noticeable as
the overtaking vehicle closes in on the bike and thus might save some
lives. Which, after all, is the usual argument for bicycle helmets.

Sloppy white t-shirts. I suppose white shirts in a green landscape are visible. Assume jungle Thailand is green in mid spring or mid fall, whichever side of the equator you happen to be on. Better than black shirts.

I mentioned that as it is very unusual to see a cyclist on a "sports"
bike here without the usual tight, bright, bicycle jersey.

I did not know Thailand followed the British system of driving on the wrong side of the road.

Yup. Well, except that they call it "the right side to drive on" :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Roman Empire= left side
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

Are you sure about that? I'd check your facts again. I have ridden in Italy. Ridden in the city of Rome itself in fact. They drove, rode of the right, correct side of the road. Not the wrong, left side. I do not think you can get much more Roman Empire than Rome, Italy itself.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Roman Empire= left side
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

Are you sure about that? I'd check your facts again. I have ridden in Italy. Ridden in the city of Rome itself in fact. They drove, rode of the right, correct side of the road. Not the wrong, left side. I do not think you can get much more Roman Empire than Rome, Italy itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
"The history of the keep-left rule can be tracked back
to ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome, and was more widely
practised than right-side traffic. Ancient Greeks, Egyptians
and Romans adhered to the left side while marching their
troops."
So it is written. So it must be.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/24/2016 2:11 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Roman Empire= left side
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

Are you sure about that? I'd check your facts again. I have ridden in Italy. Ridden in the city of Rome itself in fact. They drove, rode of the right, correct side of the road. Not the wrong, left side. I do not think you can get much more Roman Empire than Rome, Italy itself.


Well, I am Italian and I am old but I wasn't actually there
in Imperial times:

http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:25:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Roman Empire= left side
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

Are you sure about that? I'd check your facts again. I have ridden in Italy. Ridden in the city of Rome itself in fact. They drove, rode of the right, correct side of the road. Not the wrong, left side. I do not think you can get much more Roman Empire than Rome, Italy itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
"The history of the keep-left rule can be tracked back
to ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome, and was more widely
practised than right-side traffic. Ancient Greeks, Egyptians
and Romans adhered to the left side while marching their
troops."
So it is written. So it must be.

Well, the "Near Side" of an animal is the critter's left side and one
normally leads, mounts, dismounts and tightens the girth from the near
side.

Thus if one is leading a horse, or ox or mule down the road one is
either"driving" on the left side or walking in the middle of the road.
It might also be noted that a lady walks on the left side of their
partner, which puts her on the side away from the road (in a normal
polite society) protecting her from mud splashes and allows the
gentleman's right (stronger) side freedom of movement in order to
protect his lady.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On 4/25/2016 12:38 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Jeff Liebermann considered Sun, 24 Apr 2016
12:25:01 -0700 the perfect time to write:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Roman Empire= left side
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

Are you sure about that? I'd check your facts again. I have ridden in Italy. Ridden in the city of Rome itself in fact. They drove, rode of the right, correct side of the road. Not the wrong, left side. I do not think you can get much more Roman Empire than Rome, Italy itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
"The history of the keep-left rule can be tracked back
to ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome, and was more widely
practised than right-side traffic. Ancient Greeks, Egyptians
and Romans adhered to the left side while marching their
troops."
So it is written. So it must be.

It was Napoleon who changed it, and it spread from the countries he
conquered. I guess it's taken a while for the US to hear the news
from 1815.
Allegedly, the change was to make it more difficult for people to
attack oncoming road users, as passing left to left means most people
have their weapon hand away from oncoming traffic instead of on the
same side. Another reason often given is that there was a wish to
throw out everything with any association to the aristocracy (who were
of course the ones riding in coaches). But it does seem that until
then, everyone drive on the left. How North America ended up
following the French convention is something of a mystery, although it
may have been a similar wish to disassociate from anything British in
order to evade taxes.

IIRC, historians say that's the reason Americans eat with the fork in
the right hand, as opposed to the left.


--
- Frank Krygowski

its the carriage/wagon .... a plateau

we are mainly right handed controlled by the left side brain

eyesight becomes secondary to hand motion...IYKWIM..

moving out of traffic then is easier from the right thus generally more comfortable as the sight line is open over the wagon carriage bulk to oncoming from the left...the weak physical reaction side but highly important collision side.

You see where we're going here ?

thus driver on left sees traffic but responds in avoidance to the right with the right hand.

like so:

https://goo.gl/LH12ur

Am 25.04.2016 um 03:44 schrieb John B.:

It might also be noted that a lady walks on the left side of their
partner, which puts her on the side away from the road (in a normal
polite society) protecting her from mud splashes and allows the
gentleman's right (stronger) side freedom of movement in order to
protect his lady.

On the contrary, I know that it is polite (and common in dancing) that
the gentleman is to the lady's left side; this includes Irish dancing.

So the rules of politeness are as varied as the rules of the road; they
might be connected as you imply.

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 05:38:29 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann considered Sun, 24 Apr 2016
12:25:01 -0700 the perfect time to write:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Roman Empire= left side
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

Are you sure about that? I'd check your facts again. I have ridden in Italy. Ridden in the city of Rome itself in fact. They drove, rode of the right, correct side of the road. Not the wrong, left side. I do not think you can get much more Roman Empire than Rome, Italy itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
"The history of the keep-left rule can be tracked back
to ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome, and was more widely
practised than right-side traffic. Ancient Greeks, Egyptians
and Romans adhered to the left side while marching their
troops."
So it is written. So it must be.

It was Napoleon who changed it, and it spread from the countries he
conquered. I guess it's taken a while for the US to hear the news
from 1815.
Allegedly, the change was to make it more difficult for people to
attack oncoming road users, as passing left to left means most people
have their weapon hand away from oncoming traffic instead of on the
same side. Another reason often given is that there was a wish to
throw out everything with any association to the aristocracy (who were
of course the ones riding in coaches). But it does seem that until
then, everyone drive on the left. How North America ended up
following the French convention is something of a mystery, although it
may have been a similar wish to disassociate from anything British in
order to evade taxes.


I read somewhere a very convoluted explanation that when teamsters
rode the near side wheeler - to allow them to flourish their whip with
their right arm - this meant that being on the left side of the rode
meant that they couldn't see whether their wagon would clear an
oncoming wagon.... Maybe :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 7:44:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
its the carriage/wagon .... a plateau

we are mainly right handed controlled by the left side brain

eyesight becomes secondary to hand motion...IYKWIM..

moving out of traffic then is easier from the right thus generally more comfortable as the sight line is open over the wagon carriage bulk to oncoming from the left...the weak physical reaction side but highly important collision side.

You see where we're going here ?

thus driver on left sees traffic but responds in avoidance to the right with the right hand.

like so:

https://goo.gl/LH12ur

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...%2C10&as_sdtp=