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  #21  
Old October 16th 14, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, ¡Jones wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech
jbeattie wrote:

Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,
and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --
although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers
on bikes are ubiquitous.

-- Jay Beattie.


Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on
motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.
Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking
lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my
college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn
on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit
doing that.

OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage
trucks.


California Vehicle Code Section 670:

A “vehicle” is a device by which any person or property may be
propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved
_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails
or tracks.

So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to
equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not
need a horn, brake lights, etc.

Ads
  #22  
Old October 16th 14, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:57:49 PM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:
sms considered Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:04:10

-0700 the perfect time to write:



On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, ¡Jones wrote:


On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech


jbeattie wrote:




Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,


and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --


although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers


on bikes are ubiquitous.




-- Jay Beattie.




Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on


motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.


Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking


lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my


college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn


on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit


doing that.




OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage


trucks.




California Vehicle Code Section 670:




A "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be


propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved


_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails


or tracks.




So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to


equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not


need a horn, brake lights, etc.




I keep forgetting that English is not the native language in the US.

In English, there is no such distinction, and if one needs to be made,

the law concerned only needs to insert the word "motor" before

"vehicle" in any such laws which only affect motor vehicles.



Bicycles are vehicles by international convention.


NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

gnaw, US law is based on English Common Law. If including MOTOR then what you get is tangential problems arguing abt what MOTOR is when you need to stipulate what vehicle IS NOT. When you do IS NOT then problem solved, eliminate to simplify not add to simplify.

The daylight flashing strobe in difficult traffic conditions is best. No question abt that.

Portland where JB rides and lawyers, WAS an extractive industry state based on cutting trees down n hauling huge tree trunks on public roads with badly maintained and under braked trucks driven by drunks and incompetents unable to run a chain saw. Oregon's traffic laws are so skewed not toprevent unmentionable slaughter of innocents bu to keep the truck rolling into the mill with free money.
  #23  
Old October 16th 14, 02:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:04:10 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, �Jones wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech


jbeattie wrote:




Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,


and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --


although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers


on bikes are ubiquitous.




-- Jay Beattie.




Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on


motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.


Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking


lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my


college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn


on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit


doing that.




OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage


trucks.




California Vehicle Code Section 670:



A �vehicle� is a device by which any person or property may be

propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved

_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails

or tracks.



So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to

equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not

need a horn, brake lights, etc.


Maybe a bicycle doesn't need those items in California but the law in Ontario, Canada says you have to have them.

Cheers
  #24  
Old October 16th 14, 02:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_3_]
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Posts: 321
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:04:10 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, �Jones wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech


jbeattie wrote:




Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,


and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --


although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers


on bikes are ubiquitous.




-- Jay Beattie.




Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on


motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.


Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking


lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my


college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn


on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit


doing that.




OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage


trucks.




California Vehicle Code Section 670:



A �vehicle� is a device by which any person or property may be

propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved

_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails

or tracks.



So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to

equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not

need a horn, brake lights, etc.


Maybe a bicycle doesn't need those items in California but the law in
Ontario, Canada says you have to have them.

Cheers


Note the absence of a comma between "brake" and "lights" in the previous
post. I don't know of any jurisdiction where bicycles require brake lights.
  #25  
Old October 16th 14, 02:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:04:10 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, �Jones wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech


jbeattie wrote:




Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,


and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --


although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers


on bikes are ubiquitous.




-- Jay Beattie.




Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on


motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.


Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking


lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my


college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn


on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit


doing that.




OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage


trucks.




California Vehicle Code Section 670:



A �vehicle� is a device by which any person or property may be

propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved

_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails

or tracks.



So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to

equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not

need a horn, brake lights, etc.


Maybe a bicycle doesn't need those items in California but the law in
Ontario, Canada says you have to have them.

Cheers


The law in Quebec also says you need them but it says it explicitly with
reference to bicycles and not implicitly by reference to ALL vehicles. In
fact the Quebec vehicle code often uses the verbiage "all motor vehicles
and bicycles" when it refers to traffic laws and vehicle requirements.

--
duane
  #26  
Old October 16th 14, 03:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:04:10 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, �Jones wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech

jbeattie wrote:



Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,

and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --

although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers

on bikes are ubiquitous.



-- Jay Beattie.



Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on

motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.

Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking

lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my

college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn

on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit

doing that.



OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage

trucks.



California Vehicle Code Section 670:



A �vehicle� is a device by which any person or property may be

propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved

_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails

or tracks.



So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to

equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not

need a horn, brake lights, etc.


Maybe a bicycle doesn't need those items in California but the law in
Ontario, Canada says you have to have them.

Cheers


The law in Quebec also says you need them but it says it explicitly with
reference to bicycles and not implicitly by reference to ALL vehicles. In


I meant safety equipment in general as pertaining to bikes. As Ralph
points out its not the same equipment.

fact the Quebec vehicle code often uses the verbiage "all motor vehicles
and bicycles" when it refers to traffic laws and vehicle requirements.




--
duane
  #27  
Old October 16th 14, 03:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:59:06 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:04:10 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:


On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, �Jones wrote:




On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech




jbeattie wrote:








Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,




and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --




although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers




on bikes are ubiquitous.








-- Jay Beattie.








Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on




motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.




Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking




lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my




college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn




on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit




doing that.








OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage




trucks.








California Vehicle Code Section 670:








A �vehicle� is a device by which any person or property may be




propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved




_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails




or tracks.








So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to




equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not




need a horn, brake lights, etc.




Maybe a bicycle doesn't need those items in California but the law in


Ontario, Canada says you have to have them.




Cheers




The law in Quebec also says you need them but it says it explicitly with

reference to bicycles and not implicitly by reference to ALL vehicles. In

fact the Quebec vehicle code often uses the verbiage "all motor vehicles

and bicycles" when it refers to traffic laws and vehicle requirements.



--

duane


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

awwww yawl legal eagles got us wonerin' WHY the English Speaking Colonies populated by the un-wanted and disposed are bent abt bicycle safety ?

Again, California laws cover both rich and poor and of course the children of the poor riding bicycles. And a large than usual population of crzy people and uneducated farm labor immigrants....unlike modern Canada, off course..

Law cannot place undue burdens on the poor nor channel the behavior of the rich....
  #28  
Old October 16th 14, 06:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:16:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:57:49 PM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:

sms considered Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:04:10




-0700 the perfect time to write:








On 10/14/2014 7:26 PM, ¡Jones wrote:




On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech




jbeattie wrote:








Query if flashers are legal under the UVC. I was looking at the Oregon statutes,




and flashers are prohibited on cars, and I didn't see any exception for bicycles --




although I didn't look closely. I've never seen anyone get a ticket, and flashers




on bikes are ubiquitous.








-- Jay Beattie.








Flashing lights other than turn signals are usually prohibited on




motor vehicles under normal driving conditions in most US states.




Some states (Colorado, for example) prohibit driving with parking




lights; however, I'm sure it's not rigidly enforced. Back in my




college days, I drove a taxicab; when I'd cruise for a fare, I'd turn




on my 4-way flashers. One night, I was pulled over and told to quit




doing that.








OTOH, I frequently see amber flashers on service vehicles like garbage




trucks.








California Vehicle Code Section 670:








A "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be




propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved




_exclusively_ by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails




or tracks.








So technically a bicycle is not a vehicle. Hence, any laws related to




equipment on vehicles does not apply to bicycles. A bicycle does not




need a horn, brake lights, etc.








I keep forgetting that English is not the native language in the US.




In English, there is no such distinction, and if one needs to be made,




the law concerned only needs to insert the word "motor" before




"vehicle" in any such laws which only affect motor vehicles.








Bicycles are vehicles by international convention.




NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN



gnaw, US law is based on English Common Law. If including MOTOR then what you get is tangential problems arguing abt what MOTOR is when you need to stipulate what vehicle IS NOT. When you do IS NOT then problem solved, eliminate to simplify not add to simplify.



The daylight flashing strobe in difficult traffic conditions is best. No question abt that.



Portland where JB rides and lawyers, WAS an extractive industry state based on cutting trees down n hauling huge tree trunks on public roads with badly maintained and under braked trucks driven by drunks and incompetents unable to run a chain saw. Oregon's traffic laws are so skewed not toprevent unmentionable slaughter of innocents bu to keep the truck rolling into the mill with free money.


http://tinyurl.com/ld36dld The good old days. Nothing like riding through a nice clear cut. With that said, our vehicle code is fairly standard UVC. It includes bicycles in the definition of "vehicle" and also states that bikes are subject to all the rules applicable to motorists (more or less -- except where the rules cannot apply by their own terms.) I haven't combed through the code to see if there is a special exception for flashers on bikes -- but they are clearly prohibited on cars.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #29  
Old October 16th 14, 02:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On 10/15/2014 6:59 PM, Duane wrote:

snip

The law in Quebec also says you need them but it says it explicitly with
reference to bicycles and not implicitly by reference to ALL vehicles. In
fact the Quebec vehicle code often uses the verbiage "all motor vehicles
and bicycles" when it refers to traffic laws and vehicle requirements.


In California, there are laws that specifically address what equipment a
bicycle must have and must not have, including lighting equipment, just
as there are laws addressing what equipment a vehicle must have and must
not have.

For example, the CVC explicitly states that a bicycle may not have a
flashing blue light. They never say that a bicycle may not have a
flashing light of some other color. They explicitly ban flashing lights
from vehicles except in specific circumstances.

Since flashing lights on bicycles have been available for more than
thirty years if they intended to ban flashing lights on bicycles then
they have had ample time to do so. It is not necessary for the CVC to
enumerate every item that is not illegal.

A bicyclist must obey the same traffic laws that a motor vehicle driver
obeys unless there are exceptions for bicyclists which there often are.
But the equipment requirements and prohibitions are obviously not going
to be the same. For example, bicyclists are presently not banned from
using cell phones, in their hands, while riding, but motorists are
banned. There have been repeated attempts to add bicyclists to the ban
but they are always vetoed because they include other provisions in the
bill unrelated to cyclists
http://handsfreeinfo.com/california-cell-phone-laws-legislation/.

BTW, after last Saturday when I was on my bicycle all day managing
traffic for a large event, I can conclusively state that eating fried
rice from a plate, while riding a bicycle, is not a good idea.


  #30  
Old October 16th 14, 03:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light

On 10/16/2014 9:51 AM, sms wrote:
On 10/15/2014 6:59 PM, Duane wrote:

snip

The law in Quebec also says you need them but it says it explicitly with
reference to bicycles and not implicitly by reference to ALL
vehicles. In
fact the Quebec vehicle code often uses the verbiage "all motor vehicles
and bicycles" when it refers to traffic laws and vehicle requirements.


In California, there are laws that specifically address what equipment a
bicycle must have and must not have, including lighting equipment, just
as there are laws addressing what equipment a vehicle must have and must
not have.


Like I say, the Quebec vehicle code seems to distinguish between motor
vehicle and bicycle. There are some sections where they refer to motor
vehicles such as requiring brake lights, horns, windshield wipers etc.
and some sections where they refer to bicycles specifically such as
specifying lights, reflectors etc. In cases where the code applies to
both such as ceding ROW etc. they refer to both motor vehicles and bicycles.

It's effectively the same thing as if they used the term vehicles and
then stipulated when the code didn't apply to one or the other. I'm
sure some VC advocates would disagree but whatever.


For example, the CVC explicitly states that a bicycle may not have a
flashing blue light. They never say that a bicycle may not have a
flashing light of some other color. They explicitly ban flashing lights
from vehicles except in specific circumstances.

Since flashing lights on bicycles have been available for more than
thirty years if they intended to ban flashing lights on bicycles then
they have had ample time to do so. It is not necessary for the CVC to
enumerate every item that is not illegal.

A bicyclist must obey the same traffic laws that a motor vehicle driver
obeys unless there are exceptions for bicyclists which there often are.
But the equipment requirements and prohibitions are obviously not going
to be the same. For example, bicyclists are presently not banned from
using cell phones, in their hands, while riding, but motorists are
banned. There have been repeated attempts to add bicyclists to the ban
but they are always vetoed because they include other provisions in the
bill unrelated to cyclists
http://handsfreeinfo.com/california-cell-phone-laws-legislation/.


Cell phones are not allowed while riding a bike here nor are ear
phones/buds.

A cyclist has to obey most of the same laws as a motor vehicle here but
as such the code will stipulate both.

A law was recently enacted called the "Idaho stop" law since Idaho was
the first state to invoke this, where cyclists can treat stop signs as
yield signs and specifically don't have to put a foot down at a stop.

Bikes have to keep to the right unless turning left or avoiding an
obstruction.

As far as I know, there are not cases

BTW, after last Saturday when I was on my bicycle all day managing
traffic for a large event, I can conclusively state that eating fried
rice from a plate, while riding a bicycle, is not a good idea.


I think there should be a law.


 




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