Cycle Instructor Training - Day #1

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:05:28 +0000 someone who may be Tilly
wrote this:-

The Instructor Trainers were
insistent that to stop a bike as fast as possible it was necessary to
use both brakes, not front brakes alone.

This is true, but misses the point. Proper riding technique should
avoid the need to stop the bike as fast as possible in most
circumstances.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:05:28 +0000 someone who may be Tilly
wrote this:-


The Instructor Trainers were
insistent that to stop a bike as fast as possible it was necessary to
use both brakes, not front brakes alone.


This is true, but misses the point. Proper riding technique should
avoid the need to stop the bike as fast as possible in most
circumstances.

The point is that in a small proportion of circumstances, as you
correctly indicate, albeit by pointing out everything but the point,
you will need to stop as fast as possible. So it is a skill worth learning.

...d

David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:05:28 +0000 someone who may be Tilly
wrote this:-


The Instructor Trainers were
insistent that to stop a bike as fast as possible it was necessary to
use both brakes, not front brakes alone.


This is true, but misses the point. Proper riding technique should
avoid the need to stop the bike as fast as possible in most
circumstances.



How so? At maximum braking there is no weight on the back wheel so it
doesn't contribute anything except if the surface is so loose or
slippery the front wheel looses traction before the back lifts.

Tony

Tilly wrote:

9am - 10am Get to know you session.
snip
4.00 - 5.00 Plenary session

Comments: The playground session was dull, but necessary if
instructing complete beginners. The Instructor Trainers were
insistent that to stop a bike as fast as possible it was necessary to
use both brakes, not front brakes alone. Little was said about helmet
use, neither trainer wore a helmet, they appeared to be neutral on the
issue. On road much was made of the Primary Cycling Position (centre
of the lane) and only move into the Secondary Cycling Position if safe
for traffic to pass. In moving from drill to drill, the trainers had
us in a "snake", and blocked the traffic when crossing main roads,
turning left or right. Occasionally we moved from a snake to pairs.
Other road traffic behaved impeccably, apart from one cyclist, who
took advantage of our taking Primary Cycling Position and undertook
our entire snake in the Secondary Cycling Position (I don't blame
her).

Day two tomorrow.

Where are you doing this? Lifecycle? CTUK?

Its excellent to see more people undertaking this training.

John B
http://www.hampshirecycletraining.org.uk/

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:46:51 +0000, Tony Raven wrote:

This is true, but misses the point. Proper riding technique should avoid
the need to stop the bike as fast as possible in most circumstances.

How so? At maximum braking there is no weight on the back wheel so it
doesn't contribute anything except if the surface is so loose or slippery
the front wheel looses traction before the back lifts.

Depends on the height of the CoG and the friction coefficient of tyres &
road. You'd be correct for an "ordinary" on dry road, giving up some
braking power on an "upright" (or "safety" if you prefer) on a dry [1] or
wet road and throwing away useful barking (! oops ;-) effect on a
recumbent or a tandem under any circumstances bar sheet ice.


[1] Be honest. Have you ever pulled a stoppie on a bicycle? If you
haven't [2] then you still are getting some effect from the back brake.

[2] Me neither.


Mike

Mike Causer wrote:


[1] Be honest. Have you ever pulled a stoppie on a bicycle? If you
haven't [2] then you still are getting some effect from the back brake.

[2] Me neither.


Well you should have a go at it then - it might help you learn how to
use your brakes efectively.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

Honestly, what use is the rear brake if you're trying to stop as fast
as possible? There will be little to no weight on it making its
contribution relatively useless.

Mike Causer wrote:

[1] Be honest. Have you ever pulled a stoppie on a bicycle?

Loads of times. In fact it's all too easy from a lightweight racer with
dual-pivot brakes or an MTB with V's, if you have reasonable hand
strength.

Not so easy on a rear-heavy bike with crap brakes, however, or if finger
power is limited, which will be the case for young children with cheap
side-pull brakes, for example.

Also, hard front-braking is best avoided on bends or on slippery surfaces.
Trouble is, you don't always know if it's slippery until it's too late.
Still, there's little choice in an emergency.

If you
haven't [2] then you still are getting some effect from the back
brake.

[2] Me neither.

You might want to have a go at sorting the brake out. Ideally, you should
be *able* to pull a stoppie.

~PB

Tilly wrote:

snip

Thanks for that, look forward to tomorrow's edition!

I watched a cycle instructor teach an adult beginner last Saturday by
the Albert Memorial in Hyde Park. She'd clearly never ridden before
and couldn't balance at the start of the lesson. The instructor was
very professional and encouraging IMO, and an hour later she was riding
on her own with a huge smile on her face. It was magnificent to watch
her tremendous progress, well done to that man.
Cheers,
Mike.

(I was there teaching a skating lesson, LOL)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:41:05 +0900, James Annan wrote:

Mike Causer wrote:

[1] Be honest. Have you ever pulled a stoppie on a bicycle? If you
haven't [2] then you still are getting some effect from the back brake.

[2] Me neither.

Well you should have a go at it then - it might help you learn how to use
your brakes efectively.

Yes, I've had a go. On dry tarmac. I bottled out; been over the bars
before y'see, the resulting scars were noted in my passport in the days
when they recorded "distinguishing marks".

You're good at this, please tell us how you know when there's enough grip
to aviate the back wheel and when there isn't. Have you tried it on damp
tarmac, damp Bridport stone, wet tarmac, wet leaves?

And when there isn't enough friction, and you've locked the front wheel
and are on your way down, please tell us your techniques for minimising
the injuries....


Mike