Apology

On 4/15/2020 6:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2020 3:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/15/2020 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2020 11:00 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/14/2020 8:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2020 6:14 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Trump, though, has people checking and double checking
him so that he
has some of the fewest errors I've seen from a
President. He is
criticized by the left because he is an outsider rather
than he is
wrong.

Earth to Tom.

There has never, ever been a less accurate President of
the United
States than Donald Trump.ÂÂ* He is an inveterate
compulsive liar, an
incurable braggart, and a self-deluding peacock.ÂÂ* Trump
has no
understanding of constitutional government, balance of
power, separation
of powers, limits on his power (even though in large
measure that is
what the Constitution exists to do).ÂÂ* He thinks he is a
king and
unfortunately a lot of Americans want him to act like
one.ÂÂ* There has
never been a President more destructive to our nation
than Donald Trump.
Indeed, our form of government will be damaged for
decades to come from
these four years (and, God forbid, his next four years in
office).

And as for your laughable but pathetic statement, Trump
completely
rejects anything remotely resembling fact-checking from
inside or
outside of his administration.ÂÂ* The people who attempt
to do so wake up
one morning to find out they've been fired by tweet, or
they are just
forced from office by Trump's sheer malevolence and
hostility.ÂÂ* He takes
his daily marching orders from Fox News and off he goes.


You set some pretty low standards there but lots of
unqualified doofuses meet them.

Chemical weapons are a red line in Syria
ISIS is the JV Team
Fighting ISIS will be a generational conflict
ACA will save a family $2500 per year.
You can keep your doctor.

That's just off the top of my head. Pick your politician
and a few minutes' research will show plenty more.

My pick:
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...trump-in-three




16,241 to five.

So far.

As long as we're in that area, "If we pass this civil
rights bill, we'll have the n*gra vote for a hundred
years"Â* Oh, wait. That was a blunt heartfelt truth.

A) Who are you pretending to quote?
B) Got that on tape, or on some official transcript?
C) Most pertinent: Are you saying it was a lie - that they
would NOT have the black vote?

I'm talking about statements that are shown to be false, or
at least seriously misleading. If you're still arguing that
16241 is not greater than five, I think you can easily find
five times Trump claimed he didn't say what he's on camera
saying. And often within a few days!

Just to whet your appetite:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/polit...ing/index.html



You're in an area where truth itself now is the enemy of
all players, as evidenced by the twists of the editors in
your link.

No, sorry. "Truth is now the enemy of all players" is a
claim as vague as the all-purpose "Fake news." It descends
into an unreality where there is no difference between fact
and fiction.

All 16,000 claims of Trump's falsehoods are inaccurate
smears? All are just creative editing? Start here and explain:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...t-three-years/



Or start he
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...line_manual_35

** Hey, it's searchable!

Similarly, full employment is good for the nation and
incidentally benefits the President. Those are the two
main reasons it's so rabidly opposed.

Documentation, please. Who precisely has said they oppose
full employment? Did they say they oppose it specifically
because it's good for Trump?


Here's Lyndon 'bought his first election' Johnson:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-d...s-two_b_933995

Yes, Johnson was foul mouthed. Yes, he was a nasty dude. No, I never
liked him. But that's true of thousands of politicians. Bringing it up
is a Kunich-style deflection. I was talking about 16,000+ false
statements vs. five. The orange guy is setting records daily.


Now that truth and data have no meaning,

Hah. Again:

"Reality is biased against the right."

Another, although I don't much like the labels:

"Liberals like data because data lets people be more intelligent.
Conservatives hates data because it makes people liberal."


... deaths by anything where the
Wuhan virus is either present or suspected is called a death by the
Chinese virus.* Oh, that helps epidemiology a lot.

Again, from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

"What are seasonal influenza-related deaths? Seasonal influenza-related
deaths are deaths that occur in people for whom influenza infection was
likely a contributor to the cause of death, but not necessarily the
primary cause of death." From what I can tell, the same policy is
followed for COVID.

There's similar controversy about hurricane deaths, flood deaths,
earthquake deaths, etc.

Even for those, there are arguments in favor and against counting "The
power went out for a week and this person froze to death." What's the
best policy does and should depend on real (non-political) objectives.

It's complicated. Deal with it. But don't pretend that those people
didn't die, and that they would have lived if not for COVID.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/15/2020 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 08:13:00 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/14/2020 9:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:23:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/14/2020 6:14 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Trump, though, has people checking and double checking him so that he
has some of the fewest errors I've seen from a President. He is
criticized by the left because he is an outsider rather than he is
wrong.

Earth to Tom.

There has never, ever been a less accurate President of the United
States than Donald Trump. He is an inveterate compulsive liar, an
incurable braggart, and a self-deluding peacock. Trump has no
understanding of constitutional government, balance of power, separation
of powers, limits on his power (even though in large measure that is
what the Constitution exists to do). He thinks he is a king and
unfortunately a lot of Americans want him to act like one. There has
never been a President more destructive to our nation than Donald Trump.
Indeed, our form of government will be damaged for decades to come from
these four years (and, God forbid, his next four years in office).

And as for your laughable but pathetic statement, Trump completely
rejects anything remotely resembling fact-checking from inside or
outside of his administration. The people who attempt to do so wake up
one morning to find out they've been fired by tweet, or they are just
forced from office by Trump's sheer malevolence and hostility. He takes
his daily marching orders from Fox News and off he goes.


You set some pretty low standards there but lots of
unqualified doofuses meet them.

Chemical weapons are a red line in Syria
ISIS is the JV Team
Fighting ISIS will be a generational conflict
ACA will save a family $2500 per year.
You can keep your doctor.

That's just off the top of my head. Pick your politician and
a few minutes' research will show plenty more.

Amazingly, this President is still derided after the fact
even when it's baseless:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...from-covid-19/

But hey if you're enjoying yourself, carry on.

p.s. As I mentioned here recently, I often hear the radio
news from several networks on small town AM stations and I
can't say they differ in any noticeable way. They're all
anodyne and curt. What do you think makes Fox different from
SRN news? or ABC news? Really I don't get it.

What I find infuriating about the news is that they tend to have lurid
headlines and normally lack sufficient details for the listener/viewer
to determine what actually happened.

+1
I hear more ineptitude than political influence. YMMV

But I do believe that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to
write about controversial subjects without at least a tiny bit of your
own prejudices creeping into the article.

+1

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 02:04:48 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:26:20 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 00:02:44 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 11:38:37 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


Similarly, full employment is good for the nation

Nit pick, the term "good" is relative.
5% unemployment is the modern desired levelof unemployment to provide
flexibility for employers. This provides a pool of workers for employer
to immediately recruit from.

Interesting concept. Note that Thailand has had less then 1%
unemployment since 2011, until the current virus episode.

Also, a lot of employment is defintelty not full time, but part time and
while GovCo peadles(bicycle content) the lie that one hour per week
means you are employed, many people actually work for multiple
"employers" in an effort to survive.
"The gig economy' is just a modern term for what has been going on for
decades.

and incidentally benefits the President.

Only a moron believes the top of GovCo has anything directly to do with
such a situation and only a moron thinks they can make it positive for
any length of time.

Actually a government can have a very large effect on employment levels.
Singapore, for example, where offering essentially tax free status to
companies that would relocate to the Island, guaranteeing no labor
problems, and low overhead costs, has attained a very high rate of
employment. In fact over a million foreigners work in Singapore so the
number of jobs is actually larger than the number of Singaporean to fill
them.

Your post is almost a 100% example of lies, damm lies and statistics. The
real situation in singapore is not the rose view painted by GovCo.
Where GovCo is concerned, they can write the definitions of how the
statistics are measured. Hence "employed = 1 hour of work per week" here.

I reguard truth in Singapore as a hairs breath away from truth in China.
At least here we have a "free" press that isn't afraid to lead with the
UNDERemployment figure which is double to treble the official
unemployment figure. Well, it was until all those people on "bridging
visas" were told to **** off, aka go home.


Well, granted I haven't visited Singapore for some months now but I
spent considerable time there for some twenty years or more. You see,
the company I worked for did business in Singapore and maintained a
branch office there, all of which fell under my supervision so I was
there at least monthly for 20 years or more, and I might point out
that even after I retired I still maintained contact with office
personnel.

And, I might add, we hired Singapore companies as sub-contractors, we
used Singapore financing for some projects, and of course hired
Singapore Staff so I suggest that having actually lived there, been in
business there, and even read the newspaper there, is a tiny little
chance that I know more about what I am talking about than someone
who simply reads about it on the web.

By the way, there is no such thing as a "bridging
visas" in Singapore. They have such things as "Employment Pass", "S
Pass", "Work Permit (FDW)", "Work Permit (Construction)", and even
"Other Work Passes" which cover personnel under training and the like.
But no "bridging visas".

The International Labour Organization tells us that out of a total
population of 5.07 million, roughly 1.3 million people in Singapore
are in the foreign work force. While the Singapore Government figure
is that there are 1,399,600 as of Jun 2019.
Oh! I forgot the Domestic workers (House Maids), some 255,000 :-)

You see, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:41:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/15/2020 6:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2020 3:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/15/2020 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2020 11:00 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/14/2020 8:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2020 6:14 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Trump, though, has people checking and double checking
him so that he
has some of the fewest errors I've seen from a
President. He is
criticized by the left because he is an outsider rather
than he is
wrong.

Earth to Tom.

There has never, ever been a less accurate President of
the United
States than Donald Trump.ÂÂ* He is an inveterate
compulsive liar, an
incurable braggart, and a self-deluding peacock.ÂÂ* Trump
has no
understanding of constitutional government, balance of
power, separation
of powers, limits on his power (even though in large
measure that is
what the Constitution exists to do).ÂÂ* He thinks he is a
king and
unfortunately a lot of Americans want him to act like
one.ÂÂ* There has
never been a President more destructive to our nation
than Donald Trump.
Indeed, our form of government will be damaged for
decades to come from
these four years (and, God forbid, his next four years in
office).

And as for your laughable but pathetic statement, Trump
completely
rejects anything remotely resembling fact-checking from
inside or
outside of his administration.ÂÂ* The people who attempt
to do so wake up
one morning to find out they've been fired by tweet, or
they are just
forced from office by Trump's sheer malevolence and
hostility.ÂÂ* He takes
his daily marching orders from Fox News and off he goes.


You set some pretty low standards there but lots of
unqualified doofuses meet them.

Chemical weapons are a red line in Syria
ISIS is the JV Team
Fighting ISIS will be a generational conflict
ACA will save a family $2500 per year.
You can keep your doctor.

That's just off the top of my head. Pick your politician
and a few minutes' research will show plenty more.

My pick:
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...trump-in-three




16,241 to five.

So far.

As long as we're in that area, "If we pass this civil
rights bill, we'll have the n*gra vote for a hundred
years"Â* Oh, wait. That was a blunt heartfelt truth.

A) Who are you pretending to quote?
B) Got that on tape, or on some official transcript?
C) Most pertinent: Are you saying it was a lie - that they
would NOT have the black vote?

I'm talking about statements that are shown to be false, or
at least seriously misleading. If you're still arguing that
16241 is not greater than five, I think you can easily find
five times Trump claimed he didn't say what he's on camera
saying. And often within a few days!

Just to whet your appetite:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/polit...ing/index.html



You're in an area where truth itself now is the enemy of
all players, as evidenced by the twists of the editors in
your link.

No, sorry. "Truth is now the enemy of all players" is a
claim as vague as the all-purpose "Fake news." It descends
into an unreality where there is no difference between fact
and fiction.

All 16,000 claims of Trump's falsehoods are inaccurate
smears? All are just creative editing? Start here and explain:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...t-three-years/



Or start he
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...line_manual_35

** Hey, it's searchable!

Similarly, full employment is good for the nation and
incidentally benefits the President. Those are the two
main reasons it's so rabidly opposed.

Documentation, please. Who precisely has said they oppose
full employment? Did they say they oppose it specifically
because it's good for Trump?


Here's Lyndon 'bought his first election' Johnson:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-d...s-two_b_933995

Yes, Johnson was foul mouthed. Yes, he was a nasty dude. No, I never
liked him. But that's true of thousands of politicians. Bringing it up
is a Kunich-style deflection. I was talking about 16,000+ false
statements vs. five. The orange guy is setting records daily.


Now that truth and data have no meaning,

Hah. Again:

"Reality is biased against the right."

Another, although I don't much like the labels:

"Liberals like data because data lets people be more intelligent.
Conservatives hates data because it makes people liberal."


... deaths by anything where the
Wuhan virus is either present or suspected is called a death by the
Chinese virus.* Oh, that helps epidemiology a lot.

Again, from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

"What are seasonal influenza-related deaths? Seasonal influenza-related
deaths are deaths that occur in people for whom influenza infection was
likely a contributor to the cause of death, but not necessarily the
primary cause of death." From what I can tell, the same policy is
followed for COVID.

I took the time to look it up and the CDC death certificate has four
lines for cause labeled:
"a. IMMEDIATE CAUSE (Final disease or condition resulting in death)"

followed by three more lines labeled
"Sequentially list conditions, if any, leading to the cause
listed on line a. Enter the UNDERLYING CAUSE
(disease or injury that initiated the events resulting in death) LAST"
see https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf
for examples.


There's similar controversy about hurricane deaths, flood deaths,
earthquake deaths, etc.

Even for those, there are arguments in favor and against counting "The
power went out for a week and this person froze to death." What's the
best policy does and should depend on real (non-political) objectives.

It's complicated. Deal with it. But don't pretend that those people
didn't die, and that they would have lived if not for COVID.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:24:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/15/2020 8:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:31:06 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2020 7:02 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 11:38:37 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


Similarly, full employment is good for the nation

Nit pick, the term "good" is relative.
5% unemployment is the modern desired levelof unemployment to provide
flexibility for employers. This provides a pool of workers for employer
to immediately recruit from.

Also, a lot of employment is defintelty not full time, but part time and
while GovCo peadles(bicycle content) the lie that one hour per week means
you are employed, many people actually work for multiple "employers" in
an effort to survive.
"The gig economy' is just a modern term for what has been going on for
decades.

and incidentally benefits the President.

Only a moron believes the top of GovCo has anything directly to do with
such a situation and only a moron thinks they can make it positive for
any length of time.

Our "conservatives" are now shelling out money like no onw has even done
before. For every schekle the peons get, their business mates are
pocketing ten.


Odd situation, that. Your elites need to pick up their game!

Here we just spent $2.2 trillion (no kidding
$2,200,000,000,000.00) which we do not have. Of that, some
$350 billion will be paid later or much later in $1200
increments to each taxpayer who reported under $99K. Of
those taxpayers something between 10 and twenty percent are
recently unemployed and some subset of those are in dire
need. Not so much now as a week or two ago. They're
desperate now.

Some sharp guy, like you maybe, will ask where the big
chunk, some 85%, went. Good question! Who knows and who
cares? We're all Argentines now! Among the beneficiaries is
Boeing, who posted zero [0, big fat null] in aircraft sales
for January, well before the Chinese virus arrived on the
front page of your paper. Well that oughta work out. Anyone
care to explain that to waitresses, some of whom have been
borrowing money for 2 weeks already?

Every story seems to have a twist to add insult to injury.
Of late the giveaway to pals program is being called
'stimulus'. WTF? Doesn't anyone read economics? There's
healthy demand and ample supply but there's a regulatory ban
on commerce. What is this supposed to stimulate again? Not
consumption and not production at any rate.

I'm not done. The porkfest was enjoyed by both Houses with
the Senate diving in 96 to zero. And our President signed
the damned thing.

We're so over.

He didn't just sign it. He's withholding the checks until his name is embossed on them.

Will we have to swear fealty to cash them?

No, simply advance, on your knees, and when you are at arm's length
bow your head to the ground and hold your right hand out.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:51:51 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 02:04:48 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:26:20 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 00:02:44 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 11:38:37 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


Similarly, full employment is good for the nation

Nit pick, the term "good" is relative.
5% unemployment is the modern desired levelof unemployment to provide
flexibility for employers. This provides a pool of workers for
employer to immediately recruit from.

Interesting concept. Note that Thailand has had less then 1%
unemployment since 2011, until the current virus episode.

Also, a lot of employment is defintelty not full time, but part time
and while GovCo peadles(bicycle content) the lie that one hour per
week means you are employed, many people actually work for multiple
"employers" in an effort to survive.
"The gig economy' is just a modern term for what has been going on for
decades.

and incidentally benefits the President.

Only a moron believes the top of GovCo has anything directly to do
with such a situation and only a moron thinks they can make it
positive for any length of time.

Actually a government can have a very large effect on employment
levels.
Singapore, for example, where offering essentially tax free status to
companies that would relocate to the Island, guaranteeing no labor
problems, and low overhead costs, has attained a very high rate of
employment. In fact over a million foreigners work in Singapore so the
number of jobs is actually larger than the number of Singaporean to
fill them.

Your post is almost a 100% example of lies, damm lies and statistics.
The real situation in singapore is not the rose view painted by GovCo.
Where GovCo is concerned, they can write the definitions of how the
statistics are measured. Hence "employed = 1 hour of work per week"
here.

I reguard truth in Singapore as a hairs breath away from truth in China.
At least here we have a "free" press that isn't afraid to lead with the
UNDERemployment figure which is double to treble the official
unemployment figure. Well, it was until all those people on "bridging
visas" were told to **** off, aka go home.


Well, granted I haven't visited Singapore for some months now but I
spent considerable time there for some twenty years or more. You see,
the company I worked for did business in Singapore and maintained a
branch office there, all of which fell under my supervision so I was
there at least monthly for 20 years or more, and I might point out that
even after I retired I still maintained contact with office personnel.

And, I might add, we hired Singapore companies as sub-contractors, we
used Singapore financing for some projects, and of course hired
Singapore Staff so I suggest that having actually lived there, been in
business there, and even read the newspaper there, is a tiny little
chance that I know more about what I am talking about than someone who
simply reads about it on the web.

By the way, there is no such thing as a "bridging visas" in Singapore.
They have such things as "Employment Pass", "S Pass", "Work Permit
(FDW)", "Work Permit (Construction)", and even "Other Work Passes" which
cover personnel under training and the like.
But no "bridging visas".

Generic term for all the above and the others you later remember/add.
Hint, what happens when those run out..

The International Labour Organization tells us that out of a total
population of 5.07 million, roughly 1.3 million people in Singapore are
in the foreign work force. While the Singapore Government figure is that
there are 1,399,600 as of Jun 2019.
Oh! I forgot the Domestic workers (House Maids), some 255,000 :-)

You see, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

Yep, Australia has just told the equivalent of all those you emention to
**** off home so they do not appear on their "unemployment" figures. You
can work out what the effect to the economy is going to be.

Am 16.04.2020 um 00:57 schrieb Joy Beeson:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:09:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Now that truth and data have no meaning, deaths by anything
where the Wuhan virus is either present or suspected is
called a death by the Chinese virus. Oh, that helps
epidemiology a lot.

And in counting up the cost, are we going to include the people who
died because they were afraid to go to the emergeny room, or because
"elective" surgery turned out to be a bit more urgent than was
thought?

Not to mention that poverty kills.

The shortage of data-gathering equipment is going to cost us dearly
when the next SARS epidemic starts to spread.

For the global impact of the pandemics, it is sufficient look at total
mortaility rates. New York City had double the maximum mortality rate
of the last 10 years since last week of March.

On 4/16/2020 6:03 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 16.04.2020 um 00:57 schrieb Joy Beeson:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:09:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Now that truth and data have no meaning, deaths by anything
where the Wuhan virus is either present or suspected is
called a death by the Chinese virus.Â* Oh, that helps
epidemiology a lot.

And in counting up the cost, are we going to include the people who
died because they were afraid to go to the emergeny room, or because
"elective" surgery turned out to be a bit more urgent than was
thought?

Not to mention that poverty kills.

The shortage of data-gathering equipment is going to cost us dearly
when the next SARS epidemic starts to spread.

For the global impact of the pandemics, it is sufficient look at total
mortaility rates.Â* New York City had double the maximum mortality rate
of the last 10 years since last week of March.

Exactly.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:23:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2020 6:14 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Trump, though, has people checking and double checking him so that
he has some of the fewest errors I've seen from a President. He is
criticized by the left because he is an outsider rather than he is
wrong.

Earth to Tom.

There has never, ever been a less accurate President of the United
States than Donald Trump. He is an inveterate compulsive liar, an
incurable braggart, and a self-deluding peacock. Trump has no
understanding of constitutional government, balance of power,
separation of powers, limits on his power (even though in large
measure that is what the Constitution exists to do). He thinks he is
a king and unfortunately a lot of Americans want him to act like one.
There has never been a President more destructive to our nation than
Donald Trump. Indeed, our form of government will be damaged for
decades to come from these four years (and, God forbid, his next four
years in office).

And as for your laughable but pathetic statement, Trump completely
rejects anything remotely resembling fact-checking from inside or
outside of his administration. The people who attempt to do so wake
up one morning to find out they've been fired by tweet, or they are
just forced from office by Trump's sheer malevolence and hostility.
He takes his daily marching orders from Fox News and off he goes.

You set some pretty low standards there but lots of unqualified
doofuses meet them.

All of whom, in my lifetime, were vastly more qualified and competent
than the current UberDoofus. The biggest, best, most beautiful doofus
in the history of the White House! Lots of people are saying that!

But it has electrolytes...

Chemical weapons are a red line in Syria ISIS is the JV Team Fighting
ISIS will be a generational conflict ACA will save a family $2500 per
year. You can keep your doctor.

Sorry, my software mangled your formatting.

That's just off the top of my head. Pick your politician and a few
minutes' research will show plenty more.

A few cherry picked examples. How does that stack up against the more
than 16,000 fact-checked lies spoken by Donald Trump since
his inauguration?

Or maybe you just don't care about that. 40% of the electorate doesn't,
after all. The conservatives of this country have been nursing a victim
mentality for so many decades that maybe having this asshole in the Oval
Office feels like vindication.

Amazingly, this President is still derided after the fact even when
it's baseless:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...from-covid-19/

As the saying goes, "data" is not the plural of "anecdote," Andrew. The
actual scientific studies don't show a useful effect size *and* the
frequency of heart rhythm problems caused by hydroxychloroquine is
significantly high. The second French study called a halt because of
it. It would be great if it did work, but so far it doesn't. Other
drugs are being tested, some with greater initial promise.
Unfortunately the trials are badly designed which renders the results
all but uninterpretable, leaving little or no guidance as to treatment
that can be extracted.

In the meantime, the federal government's incompetence stands in the way
of wider testing, in order to prevent Trump's numbers from getting
worse: more testing = more confirmed cases and more confirmed deaths.
And Trump lies about it over and over and over. He has made it quite
clear that the deaths of tens of thousands of us matter not at all to
him, so longs as he comes out ahead. His personal gain is all he cares
about.

But you're OK with that, apparently, and want to pretend there is some
sort of moral equivalence between- so far- 40,000 dead Americans and
750,000 (and probably an order of magnitude more) sick ones with "you
can keep your doctor" (which by the way you could, unless the doctor
didn't sign up to be a provider with your insurance plan...).

**** that, Andrew. I am not buying it.

Donald Trump's derelection of duty is stunning, his incapacity to be
truthful is frightening, his failure as a president is epic and
unprecedented, and Americans cheering him on is the most disheartening
thing I have ever witnessed in my life.

Within a week more Americans will have died in the COVID-19 epidemic
than died in Vietnam. That's what your president is presiding over,
Andrew. And more will die after that. What are the acceptable losses?
100,000? 200,000? Your parents, your siblings, your children? The
acceptability of losses tends to depend on how far away they are from us
personally.

But hey if you're enjoying yourself, carry on.

No, actually there is nothing enjoyable about this. I am watching my
nation and everything it has stood for (especially since WW I) be
destroyed by a raving moron and the ass-lickers who surround him. He
has handed leadership of the world to Russia and China, has
congratulated and admired tyrants, has attacked and denigrated our
allies, has reneged on the promises and faithfulness of America, has
damaged constitutional government, has viciously maligned patriotic
Americans over and over, and has betrayed his oath of office to uphold
and defend the Constitution multiple times. There is not a shred of
decency in the man. He is a traitor to America and is praised for it by
people who delude themselves into thinking they are patriots.

**** that, Andrew.

p.s. As I mentioned here recently, I often hear the radio news from
several networks on small town AM stations and I can't say they differ
in any noticeable way. They're all anodyne and curt. What do you think
makes Fox different from SRN news? or ABC news? Really I don't get it.

Fox News exists to publish a political agenda and to sway people into
thinking a particular way. It is not a news outlet, it is a propaganda
outlet. The founder was quite open about this. The goal was to get
people to stop thinking critically in order to propel a certain
political mindset into power. ABC, NBC, CBS do not do that, Andrew. I
don't know who the heck SRN News is, so I can't comment on them. I
think MSNBC attempts to do a Fox New type agenda but from the other end
of the spectrum, at least to some extent, and I don't watch them either.

If you can't see the glaring differences that are so instantly obvious
between Fox News and the other agitprop organizations, then I have no
answer for that.

On 4/20/2020 6:55 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:23:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/14/2020 6:14 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Trump, though, has people checking and double checking him so that
he has some of the fewest errors I've seen from a President. He is
criticized by the left because he is an outsider rather than he is
wrong.

Earth to Tom.

There has never, ever been a less accurate President of the United
States than Donald Trump. He is an inveterate compulsive liar, an
incurable braggart, and a self-deluding peacock. Trump has no
understanding of constitutional government, balance of power,
separation of powers, limits on his power (even though in large
measure that is what the Constitution exists to do). He thinks he is
a king and unfortunately a lot of Americans want him to act like one.
There has never been a President more destructive to our nation than
Donald Trump. Indeed, our form of government will be damaged for
decades to come from these four years (and, God forbid, his next four
years in office).

And as for your laughable but pathetic statement, Trump completely
rejects anything remotely resembling fact-checking from inside or
outside of his administration. The people who attempt to do so wake
up one morning to find out they've been fired by tweet, or they are
just forced from office by Trump's sheer malevolence and hostility.
He takes his daily marching orders from Fox News and off he goes.

You set some pretty low standards there but lots of unqualified
doofuses meet them.

All of whom, in my lifetime, were vastly more qualified and competent
than the current UberDoofus. The biggest, best, most beautiful doofus
in the history of the White House! Lots of people are saying that!

But it has electrolytes...

Chemical weapons are a red line in Syria ISIS is the JV Team Fighting
ISIS will be a generational conflict ACA will save a family $2500 per
year. You can keep your doctor.

Sorry, my software mangled your formatting.

That's just off the top of my head. Pick your politician and a few
minutes' research will show plenty more.

A few cherry picked examples. How does that stack up against the more
than 16,000 fact-checked lies spoken by Donald Trump since
his inauguration?

Or maybe you just don't care about that. 40% of the electorate doesn't,
after all. The conservatives of this country have been nursing a victim
mentality for so many decades that maybe having this asshole in the Oval
Office feels like vindication.

Amazingly, this President is still derided after the fact even when
it's baseless:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...from-covid-19/

As the saying goes, "data" is not the plural of "anecdote," Andrew. The
actual scientific studies don't show a useful effect size *and* the
frequency of heart rhythm problems caused by hydroxychloroquine is
significantly high. The second French study called a halt because of
it. It would be great if it did work, but so far it doesn't. Other
drugs are being tested, some with greater initial promise.
Unfortunately the trials are badly designed which renders the results
all but uninterpretable, leaving little or no guidance as to treatment
that can be extracted.

In the meantime, the federal government's incompetence stands in the way
of wider testing, in order to prevent Trump's numbers from getting
worse: more testing = more confirmed cases and more confirmed deaths.
And Trump lies about it over and over and over. He has made it quite
clear that the deaths of tens of thousands of us matter not at all to
him, so longs as he comes out ahead. His personal gain is all he cares
about.

But you're OK with that, apparently, and want to pretend there is some
sort of moral equivalence between- so far- 40,000 dead Americans and
750,000 (and probably an order of magnitude more) sick ones with "you
can keep your doctor" (which by the way you could, unless the doctor
didn't sign up to be a provider with your insurance plan...).

**** that, Andrew. I am not buying it.

Donald Trump's derelection of duty is stunning, his incapacity to be
truthful is frightening, his failure as a president is epic and
unprecedented, and Americans cheering him on is the most disheartening
thing I have ever witnessed in my life.

Within a week more Americans will have died in the COVID-19 epidemic
than died in Vietnam. That's what your president is presiding over,
Andrew. And more will die after that. What are the acceptable losses?
100,000? 200,000? Your parents, your siblings, your children? The
acceptability of losses tends to depend on how far away they are from us
personally.

But hey if you're enjoying yourself, carry on.

No, actually there is nothing enjoyable about this. I am watching my
nation and everything it has stood for (especially since WW I) be
destroyed by a raving moron and the ass-lickers who surround him. He
has handed leadership of the world to Russia and China, has
congratulated and admired tyrants, has attacked and denigrated our
allies, has reneged on the promises and faithfulness of America, has
damaged constitutional government, has viciously maligned patriotic
Americans over and over, and has betrayed his oath of office to uphold
and defend the Constitution multiple times. There is not a shred of
decency in the man. He is a traitor to America and is praised for it by
people who delude themselves into thinking they are patriots.

**** that, Andrew.

p.s. As I mentioned here recently, I often hear the radio news from
several networks on small town AM stations and I can't say they differ
in any noticeable way. They're all anodyne and curt. What do you think
makes Fox different from SRN news? or ABC news? Really I don't get it.

Fox News exists to publish a political agenda and to sway people into
thinking a particular way. It is not a news outlet, it is a propaganda
outlet. The founder was quite open about this. The goal was to get
people to stop thinking critically in order to propel a certain
political mindset into power. ABC, NBC, CBS do not do that, Andrew. I
don't know who the heck SRN News is, so I can't comment on them. I
think MSNBC attempts to do a Fox New type agenda but from the other end
of the spectrum, at least to some extent, and I don't watch them either.

If you can't see the glaring differences that are so instantly obvious
between Fox News and the other agitprop organizations, then I have no
answer for that.


I cannot, sincerely, hear any difference in (or any excuse
for) the two minute substitute for actual news on the radio
twice an hour. None seem any different from one another to
me (except as noted earlier the government radio which is so
slanted it's humorous).

Regarding 'Trump lies' (see also 'Trump racist') making a
breathless list doesn't mean his are more or worse than the
usual dreck out of office holders generally. The 'racist'
bit is worse, being absolutely unfounded in any way save
repetition.

Regarding hydrochloroquine, we know much more than a few
weeks ago. As you are no doubt aware, any licensed MD can
prescribe any FDA approved substance for any purpose. Which
makes puzzling that some Governors, suddenly banning a drug
on which some of their citizens have relied for many years,
from being dispensed. In this case, as I mentioned weeks ago
here, HCQ is not a cure. There are antirirals which seem
effective and they (and others) are being rigorously
evaluated. The nub is that some people react with a
devastating cytokine cascade and are urgently at death's
door without intervention. It appears HQC, long used for
Lupus sufferers, does just that, buying time rather than
death by drowning. Sounds good to me and if I could not
breathe it would sound even better. The azithromycin
companion is for opportunistic infection which (again, you
probably know this) is common with reduced lung function
(the actual mechanism for many influenza deaths).


Testing? Oh the only test allowed needed CDC blessing and it
sucked? Sounds familiar! Right. That would be Dr Gallo of
CDC and his (royalty!) flawed test for AIDS at the first
widespread incidence. In five weeks this President removed
those barriers, opened the field to a series of new
approaches from American innovators not the lifers at CDC.
With two slower more invasive formats already come and gone,
now we have the 5-minute Abbott nasal wipe test (CDC was a
sinus (ouch!) poke and 4 to seven days). Next iteration will
be a saliva test due shortly All in five weeks! Mr Reagan
did not get the CDC impediments out of the way as fast or as
well for AIDS victims as Mr Trump did here.

I could continue but I won't.

I think you're confirming my earlier analysis that you just
don't like the guy. Which his fine, suit yourself. I don't
much like him either. That said, he's the pick of the
litter and has done pretty well for a dog.

At some point it's affecting your thought processes.'Orange
Man Bad' it not enough for a complete ethos.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971