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Backpack or pannier



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 11th 14, 01:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Backpack or pannier


basket needs nylon

https://www.google.com/search?site=i....SGiTItrEOD 4

no complaints for Tubus here ?
Ads
  #22  
Old April 11th 14, 04:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Backpack or pannier

On 4/10/2014 7:31 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Apart from the lack of braze-ons, a short wheelbase bike can be problematic with panniers. You get heel strike with some bags. My son's Kona Dewdrop is an over-grown MTB with a high BB. It has a rack, and I whack my knee on it dismounting -- something to do with swinging my leg so high to clear the saddle. Racks have some minor issues. I do like carrying heavy stuff in a pannier on that bike, though -- and of course, racks and panniers are a must for touring. For commuting with a minor amount of stuff, I use a backpack. If I were commuting regularly with a laptop or lots of stuff, I would use a pannier and kludge a rack on my CX bike.


You have to choose both the rear rack and the panniers carefully. A lot
of rear racks are very short so even with the panniers all the way back
you get interference. But you can buy some rear racks that are long
enough that when you position the panniers all the way back you
eliminate the interference.

I think the problem is that a lot of people don't think about rack
length when selecting a rear rack and don't realize the problem until
it's too late.

One of the nicest rear racks, and one of the longest ones, is
embarrassingly only available he
http://www.landriderbikes.com/accessories_1.asp. It's a Massload
CL-476 out of Taiwan, but it's not sold anywhere under that moniker.
It's 42 cm long. A Blackurn Expedition Rack is only 32 cm long. That
extra 10 cm makes a big difference in heal clearance.

Robert Beckman used to make racks with long platforms but apparently
he's no longer in business as the website no longer is there.

There's also hacks you can do to solve the problem, i.e.
http://nordicgroup.us/bicycleluggageracks/rackimages/extender.JPG
  #23  
Old April 11th 14, 09:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Backpack or pannier

On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:35:31 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 4/10/2014 7:31 AM, jbeattie wrote:



snip



Apart from the lack of braze-ons, a short wheelbase bike can be problematic with panniers. You get heel strike with some bags. My son's Kona Dewdrop is an over-grown MTB with a high BB. It has a rack, and I whack my knee on it dismounting -- something to do with swinging my leg so high to clear the saddle. Racks have some minor issues. I do like carrying heavy stuff in a pannier on that bike, though -- and of course, racks and panniers are a must for touring. For commuting with a minor amount of stuff, I use a backpack. If I were commuting regularly with a laptop or lots of stuff, I would use a pannier and kludge a rack on my CX bike.




You have to choose both the rear rack and the panniers carefully. A lot

of rear racks are very short so even with the panniers all the way back

you get interference. But you can buy some rear racks that are long

enough that when you position the panniers all the way back you

eliminate the interference.



I think the problem is that a lot of people don't think about rack

length when selecting a rear rack and don't realize the problem until

it's too late.



One of the nicest rear racks, and one of the longest ones, is

embarrassingly only available he

http://www.landriderbikes.com/accessories_1.asp. It's a Massload

CL-476 out of Taiwan, but it's not sold anywhere under that moniker.

It's 42 cm long. A Blackurn Expedition Rack is only 32 cm long. That

extra 10 cm makes a big difference in heal clearance.



Robert Beckman used to make racks with long platforms but apparently

he's no longer in business as the website no longer is there.



There's also hacks you can do to solve the problem, i.e.

http://nordicgroup.us/bicycleluggageracks/rackimages/extender.JPG


For best handling of the bike you want the pannier center of mass to b e over the rear axle. Movingthe weight to far back can result in very squirrely handling especially if there is no load up front to help keep the front wheel touching the pavement of other surface you are riding on. I often see bicycles with the panniers aft of the rear axle or a least a vast majority of the pannier aft of the rear axle and I wonder what the handling of the bicycle must be like especially at speed. Genuine touring frames usally have longer chainstays so that the panner can be mounted in the best position to ensure good handling of the bicycle at various speeds. Moving panniers rearward to avoid heel strike usually introduces handling problems if there is a fair bit of weight in the panniers or on the rack.

Cheers
  #24  
Old April 11th 14, 09:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
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Posts: 1,900
Default Backpack or pannier

On 4/11/2014 4:11 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:35:31 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 4/10/2014 7:31 AM, jbeattie wrote:



snip



Apart from the lack of braze-ons, a short wheelbase bike can be problematic with panniers. You get heel strike with some bags. My son's Kona Dewdrop is an over-grown MTB with a high BB. It has a rack, and I whack my knee on it dismounting -- something to do with swinging my leg so high to clear the saddle. Racks have some minor issues. I do like carrying heavy stuff in a pannier on that bike, though -- and of course, racks and panniers are a must for touring. For commuting with a minor amount of stuff, I use a backpack. If I were commuting regularly with a laptop or lots of stuff, I would use a pannier and kludge a rack on my CX bike.




You have to choose both the rear rack and the panniers carefully. A lot

of rear racks are very short so even with the panniers all the way back

you get interference. But you can buy some rear racks that are long

enough that when you position the panniers all the way back you

eliminate the interference.



I think the problem is that a lot of people don't think about rack

length when selecting a rear rack and don't realize the problem until

it's too late.



One of the nicest rear racks, and one of the longest ones, is

embarrassingly only available he

http://www.landriderbikes.com/accessories_1.asp. It's a Massload

CL-476 out of Taiwan, but it's not sold anywhere under that moniker.

It's 42 cm long. A Blackurn Expedition Rack is only 32 cm long. That

extra 10 cm makes a big difference in heal clearance.



Robert Beckman used to make racks with long platforms but apparently

he's no longer in business as the website no longer is there.



There's also hacks you can do to solve the problem, i.e.

http://nordicgroup.us/bicycleluggageracks/rackimages/extender.JPG


For best handling of the bike you want the pannier center of mass to b e over the rear axle. Movingthe weight to far back can result in very squirrely handling especially if there is no load up front to help keep the front wheel touching the pavement of other surface you are riding on. I often see bicycles with the panniers aft of the rear axle or a least a vast majority of the pannier aft of the rear axle and I wonder what the handling of the bicycle must be like especially at speed. Genuine touring frames usally have longer chainstays so that the panner can be mounted in the best position to ensure good handling of the bicycle at various speeds. Moving panniers rearward to avoid heel strike usually introduces handling problems if there is a fair bit of weight in the panniers or on the rack.

Cheers



Agreed. But what is the point of buying a road bike with a short wheel
base and trying to turn it into a touring bike? Don't get it. If you
want a bike to use as both, there are plenty of options. The
Specialized Roubaix that I've mentioned for one.




  #25  
Old April 11th 14, 09:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Backpack or pannier

On 4/11/2014 4:29 PM, Duane wrote:
But what is the point of buying a road bike with a short wheel
base and trying to turn it into a touring bike? Don't get it. If you
want a bike to use as both, there are plenty of options. The
Specialized Roubaix that I've mentioned for one.


Well, some reasons people do that a

1) They don't understand that there are different frame designs best
suited to different purposes.

2) They already have a bike that they're trying to adapt, rather than
buying another one.

3) They're getting a really, really good deal on a bike and don't even
want to think about its possible shortcomings.

4) They have too hard a time finding a more suitable bike at a price
they can accept.

5) They've been convinced to buy a less-than-optimum bike by an
aggressive salesman pushing what he has in stock.

6) They spent too much time reading a bike magazine that over-emphasizes
"fast recreational riding" or racing.

7) They think an inch taken off the wheelbase is going to make them
much, much faster, or make their ride much, much easier.

8) They don't personally mind the detriments of the mismatch.

There are probably other reasons. I've seen all of the above, and of
course, they're not mutually exclusive.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #26  
Old April 11th 14, 10:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Backpack or pannier

On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:29:18 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:11 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:35:31 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:


On 4/10/2014 7:31 AM, jbeattie wrote:








snip








Apart from the lack of braze-ons, a short wheelbase bike can be problematic with panniers. You get heel strike with some bags. My son's Kona Dewdrop is an over-grown MTB with a high BB. It has a rack, and I whack my knee on it dismounting -- something to do with swinging my leg so high to clear the saddle. Racks have some minor issues. I do like carrying heavy stuff in a pannier on that bike, though -- and of course, racks and panniers are a must for touring. For commuting with a minor amount of stuff, I use a backpack. If I were commuting regularly with a laptop or lots of stuff, I would use a pannier and kludge a rack on my CX bike.








You have to choose both the rear rack and the panniers carefully. A lot




of rear racks are very short so even with the panniers all the way back




you get interference. But you can buy some rear racks that are long




enough that when you position the panniers all the way back you




eliminate the interference.








I think the problem is that a lot of people don't think about rack




length when selecting a rear rack and don't realize the problem until




it's too late.








One of the nicest rear racks, and one of the longest ones, is




embarrassingly only available he




http://www.landriderbikes.com/accessories_1.asp. It's a Massload




CL-476 out of Taiwan, but it's not sold anywhere under that moniker.




It's 42 cm long. A Blackurn Expedition Rack is only 32 cm long. That




extra 10 cm makes a big difference in heal clearance.








Robert Beckman used to make racks with long platforms but apparently




he's no longer in business as the website no longer is there.








There's also hacks you can do to solve the problem, i.e.




http://nordicgroup.us/bicycleluggageracks/rackimages/extender.JPG




For best handling of the bike you want the pannier center of mass to b e over the rear axle. Movingthe weight to far back can result in very squirrely handling especially if there is no load up front to help keep the front wheel touching the pavement of other surface you are riding on. I often see bicycles with the panniers aft of the rear axle or a least a vast majority of the pannier aft of the rear axle and I wonder what the handling of the bicycle must be like especially at speed. Genuine touring frames usally have longer chainstays so that the panner can be mounted in the best position to ensure good handling of the bicycle at various speeds. Moving panniers rearward to avoid heel strike usually introduces handling problems if there is a fair bit of weight in the panniers or on the rack.




Cheers








Agreed. But what is the point of buying a road bike with a short wheel

base and trying to turn it into a touring bike? Don't get it. If you

want a bike to use as both, there are plenty of options. The

Specialized Roubaix that I've mentioned for one.


I was replying to SMS as his advice could result in a very squirrley handling bicycle if tthe weight is shifted rearward of the rear axle.

The only way I can see to enjoy riding with a rear rack on a short wheelbase bike is to mount very small panniers or a larger trunk bag. People with short wheelbase bikes often use backpacks rather than try to kludge something that is not going to be very enjoyable to use anyway.Just like you wouldn't enter a Clydesdale or Percheron or Shire horse in a race geared to thorougbred horses it's not gret to try to convert a racing geometry bike to long didtance loaded touring.

Cheers
  #27  
Old April 11th 14, 11:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Backpack or pannier

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:29:18 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:11 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:35:31 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:


On 4/10/2014 7:31 AM, jbeattie wrote:








snip








Apart from the lack of braze-ons, a short wheelbase bike can be
problematic with panniers. You get heel strike with some bags. My
son's Kona Dewdrop is an over-grown MTB with a high BB. It has a
rack, and I whack my knee on it dismounting -- something to do with
swinging my leg so high to clear the saddle. Racks have some minor
issues. I do like carrying heavy stuff in a pannier on that bike,
though -- and of course, racks and panniers are a must for touring.
For commuting with a minor amount of stuff, I use a backpack. If I
were commuting regularly with a laptop or lots of stuff, I would use
a pannier and kludge a rack on my CX bike.








You have to choose both the rear rack and the panniers carefully. A lot




of rear racks are very short so even with the panniers all the way back




you get interference. But you can buy some rear racks that are long




enough that when you position the panniers all the way back you




eliminate the interference.








I think the problem is that a lot of people don't think about rack




length when selecting a rear rack and don't realize the problem until




it's too late.








One of the nicest rear racks, and one of the longest ones, is




embarrassingly only available he




http://www.landriderbikes.com/accessories_1.asp. It's a Massload




CL-476 out of Taiwan, but it's not sold anywhere under that moniker.




It's 42 cm long. A Blackurn Expedition Rack is only 32 cm long. That




extra 10 cm makes a big difference in heal clearance.








Robert Beckman used to make racks with long platforms but apparently




he's no longer in business as the website no longer is there.








There's also hacks you can do to solve the problem, i.e.




http://nordicgroup.us/bicycleluggageracks/rackimages/extender.JPG




For best handling of the bike you want the pannier center of mass to b
e over the rear axle. Movingthe weight to far back can result in very
squirrely handling especially if there is no load up front to help keep
the front wheel touching the pavement of other surface you are riding
on. I often see bicycles with the panniers aft of the rear axle or a
least a vast majority of the pannier aft of the rear axle and I wonder
what the handling of the bicycle must be like especially at speed.
Genuine touring frames usally have longer chainstays so that the panner
can be mounted in the best position to ensure good handling of the
bicycle at various speeds. Moving panniers rearward to avoid heel
strike usually introduces handling problems if there is a fair bit of
weight in the panniers or on the rack.




Cheers








Agreed. But what is the point of buying a road bike with a short wheel

base and trying to turn it into a touring bike? Don't get it. If you

want a bike to use as both, there are plenty of options. The

Specialized Roubaix that I've mentioned for one.


I was replying to SMS as his advice could result in a very squirrley
handling bicycle if tthe weight is shifted rearward of the rear axle.


Right. I was just agreeing.

The only way I can see to enjoy riding with a rear rack on a short
wheelbase bike is to mount very small panniers or a larger trunk bag.
People with short wheelbase bikes often use backpacks rather than try to
kludge something that is not going to be very enjoyable to use
anyway.Just like you wouldn't enter a Clydesdale or Percheron or Shire
horse in a race geared to thorougbred horses it's not gret to try to
convert a racing geometry bike to long didtance loaded touring.

Cheers



--
duane
  #28  
Old April 11th 14, 11:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Backpack or pannier

well, upright or relaxed tourers are available over the TdF holdovers....the field is open for consumer choice.

But the racks doahn chose the consumer who has and will always come 429 Mustang/ 430 Challenger/454 Camaro colors with Mitty stripes. HOMBRE !

?! DIY bag are possible n also possible I'll get a DIY BAG video out if I can persuade Rita into some filmy underwear....

Is possible to remount with a thin 3 layer balsa plywood cut as a trapezoid leaving heels free to revo. Mount the ply then move bag south. The trap when well packed both frees heel and keeps weight near axle.

Jute's basket recommend looks a lot like the Chinese waste baskets seen at Walmort. Correspondence and review with the Bikepack crew made my steel Redline CX/Trekker A LOT HEAVIER AND THE BIKE GET HEAVieieieiR every time I pick it up n move it outside so I can walk back into the garage.

But around town a bag with skeleton removes a lotta mid distance wear n hassle.

until you run it into someone.
  #29  
Old April 11th 14, 11:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
x
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Backpack or pannier

not that the 429 gives snappy handling like a TdF frame...JB recently bought a more relaxed ride in damping CF...a cobblestone racer ?

Tha's what many believe they want......crispness....where snappy handling is tiring over long distances....

people buy 'sports car' n they are buying very low power GT systems but with the bike you GET A SPORTS RACER SYSTEM.

if 'they' were happy then wood we see the more relaxed market ? prob. once the sports was saturated.

oh right, Lance came out for publicity earlier...I'll go check that.....
  #30  
Old April 12th 14, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Backpack or pannier

On 4/11/2014 5:28 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

The only way I can see to enjoy riding with a rear rack on a short wheelbase bike

is to mount very small panniers or a larger trunk bag. People with short
wheelbase
bikes often use backpacks rather than try to kludge something that is
not going
to be very enjoyable to use anyway.Just like you wouldn't enter a
Clydesdale or
Percheron or Shire horse in a race geared to thorougbred horses it's not
gret
to try to convert a racing geometry bike to long didtance loaded touring.

Again, if I had to tour with a short wheelbase bike, I'd go with front
panniers, plus maybe a saddlebag.

Front panniers put the load on the stronger and more lightly loaded
wheel, can give an aerodynamic advantage (mostly from shielding the
rotating feet from the wind, I think) and slow the steering a bit, which
can be beneficial if you're trying to ride relaxed on a tight bike.

I've used that packing scheme (plus a handlebar bag) on some "credit
card" tours, although that was on my touring bike, not a short wheelbase
bike. The scheme works very well, in my experience.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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