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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 4th 19, 04:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 20:24:00 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/3/2019 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:13:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 11:54 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 11:43:56 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2019 11:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 18:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

No. Because you stated that "no helmet equates to zero protection" which means all helmets have some protection.

O.K. I'll rephrase that. if we assume that a total lack of a helmet
equates to zero protection... :-)

Ah, but it doesn't! For years, we had a quite clever poster here (Guy
Chapman) who noted, by analogy, that his wooly cap had saved his life!

I could make the same claim. The only time I hit my head while riding
was when I was a teen. It was a fairly hard hit, and I'm sure a helmet
would have been crushed or cracked, had they existed and I had been
wearing one. So I guess it was the wooly cap that saved me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Want to have some fun? Take a couple of melons and put a wooly cap on one and a helmet on the other and then drop them from a a respectable height so that the wooly cap hits the pavement first and also the helmet hits the pavement first. I'm willing to be that t he melon with the helmet over it will suffer less damage than the melon with the wooly cap.

It's a very popular demonstration, quite useful at scaring parents and
their little kids away from ever riding bicycles. Too bad they don't do
the same thing for those much bigger sources of brain injuries - riding
in cars and walking.

VBEG We all know you're extremely anti-helmet. LOL

I'm actually for honesty, for truthful presentation of data, and for
individual choice.

If I were anti-helmet, I'd be working to outlaw them. It would be
parallel to the helmeteers efforts to outlaw riding bikes without helmets.

Is there a mandatory helmet law where you live? (I believe so.) Which
side is imposing its will on the other side?


But! But! Frank! The government is only trying (by legislation) to
make you safe...

Perhaps a logical extenuation of the concept would be simply
outlawing those dangerous devices called bicycles.
Think of it, perhaps 800 lives, and thousands of injuries, saved every
year.

And it makes perfect sense in the USian logical system. After all,
every time there is a mass shooting the anti gun fraternity is
screaming for guns to be banned and here we have this two wheeled
device that is killing 800 perfectly good tax paying US citizens every
year.

Ban The Two Wheel Killers!
--
cheers,

John B.


Absolutely! If every scary looking firearm were to suddenly
vanish why we'd all be safe:


Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so
logically if there no guns there would be no "killed".


I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that.

But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you
now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total
murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out?

We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the
next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #32  
Old August 4th 19, 04:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On 8/4/2019 8:21 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:21:50 AM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your head than normal foam.

I wonder if this is advertising BS or an actual improvement of the cell shape design. Since they are manufactured using a 3-D printing technology it is very simple for them to make improvements to the design.

At 28 times the protection I wouldn't have had a concussion in the first place so it is actually something to think about. I am paying about $400 a month for medication and in a constant worry that I will grow used to the medication and its effectiveness will fail. I already discovered that if I take these Saw Palmetto pills for enlarged prostate that it makes you pass the medication out more rapidly that you're supposed to and I start having micro-seizures.

I can't take any larger doses so that is always a problem.

I absolutely do not believe that a helmet can save your life and we've discussed this many times before. But I do believe that it can make the life you wouldn't have lost more livable.


F*cking hell another silly helmet thread. Well it keeps Frank and John B busy.......


Could you not tell the subject from the subject header? Sheesh!

If you don't want to read them, don't read them, Lou! What could be simpler?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #33  
Old August 4th 19, 04:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 3:47:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2019 6:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your head than normal foam.

I wonder if this is advertising BS or an actual improvement of the cell shape design. Since they are manufactured using a 3-D printing technology it is very simple for them to make improvements to the design.

At 28 times the protection I wouldn't have had a concussion in the first place so it is actually something to think about. I am paying about $400 a month for medication and in a constant worry that I will grow used to the medication and its effectiveness will fail. I already discovered that if I take these Saw Palmetto pills for enlarged prostate that it makes you pass the medication out more rapidly that you're supposed to and I start having micro-seizures.

I can't take any larger doses so that is always a problem.

I absolutely do not believe that a helmet can save your life and we've discussed this many times before. But I do believe that it can make the life you wouldn't have lost more livable.


Perhaps, for certain values of "can."

Maybe we'll someday see if the Wavecell makes a difference. In that
case, perhaps they can sell it to those that actually has the largest
number of TBI injuries. That surely does not include bicyclists, despite
all the dishonest hype. Ask any honest ER doctor or TBI specialist.

In any case, it's pretty clear conventional bike helmets aren't working.
Cyclist concussions have soared since bike helmets became popular - just
the opposite of what was promised.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, please stop your invention. TBI has not "soared". In fact we have a smaller percentage of injuries and fatalities of bicyclists because they are more familiar to motorists these days and cycling becomes more common.
  #34  
Old August 4th 19, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 5:23:28 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 15:21:48 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the
latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your
head than normal foam.


The question to ask yourself is "where is the point of failure now".

When mushroom style bicycle helmets, aka bell, first came out, there was
a nasty rise in a spine based injury of a rather severe and fatal type.


Please don't publish crap like this without references. Helmets are not the cause of this - rather it is the MTB explosion and the stupid tricks that mountain bikers do that cause these sorts of injuries.
  #35  
Old August 4th 19, 04:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 6:11:08 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 8:49:39 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 15:21:48 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your head than normal foam.

I wonder if this is advertising BS or an actual improvement of the cell shape design. Since they are manufactured using a 3-D printing technology it is very simple for them to make improvements to the design.

At 28 times the protection I wouldn't have had a concussion in the first place so it is actually something to think about. I am paying about $400 a month for medication and in a constant worry that I will grow used to the medication and its effectiveness will fail. I already discovered that if I take these Saw Palmetto pills for enlarged prostate that it makes you pass the medication out more rapidly that you're supposed to and I start having micro-seizures.

I can't take any larger doses so that is always a problem.

I absolutely do not believe that a helmet can save your life and we've discussed this many times before. But I do believe that it can make the life you wouldn't have lost more livable.


Well, if we assume that no helmet equates to zero protection and a
helmet provided 28 times that protection that the formula would be 28
X 0 = ? Would it not?
--
cheers,

John B.


I read somewhere recently that helmet impacts are ONLY tested on the top of the head in the drop test and that helmets are NOT tested for side impacts that is impacts that hit the side of the helmet. I had a helmet that fell off the handlebar of my STOPPED bicycle and a large chunk broke off the side of that helmet. Helmets can help in some cases but the standards helmets have to pass are abysmally low.

Cheers


Helmets are tested in several modes. Side impacts are also measured. Remember, we went through this a couple of months ago where I looked up the approximate use of bicycles in the USA and the accident rates and compared it to the paper I wrote back in the late 80's and serious and fatal injuries as a percentage of riders had fallen just like the graph in my original paper was showing.
  #36  
Old August 4th 19, 04:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 6:50:30 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 11:21:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your head than normal foam.


I wonder if they will make a commuting or touring helmet, by which I mean a helmet for people who sit upright on their bikes and comes with or has options for a visor, a visor-fit mirror, replacement comfort strips for inside, and so on. My Bell Citi, which is anyway old, took a deep dent in the back the other day, which would have been a gash in my head requiring stitches at the very least, perhaps a concussion too. But I can't find another one, and Bell doesn't list it any more. So I may as well shop for something more capable, if there is such a thing.

Andre Jute
Good news, if it works better


The MTB helmets are designed for people that sit more upright on a bike.
  #37  
Old August 4th 19, 07:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 7:47:21 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 1:09 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 11:54 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

VBEG We all know you're extremely anti-helmet. LOL

I'm actually for honesty, for truthful presentation of data, and for
individual choice.

If I were anti-helmet, I'd be working to outlaw them. It would be
parallel to the helmeteers efforts to outlaw riding bikes without helmets.

Is there a mandatory helmet law where you live? (I believe so.) Which
side is imposing its will on the other side?


Wrong again Frank. There's no mandatory helmet law where I live.


Really? I thought you lived in Ontario.

From Wikipedia:
"The use of bicycle helmets is compulsory in the provinces of British
Columbia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, and
Prince Edward Island.[12] In the provinces of Alberta, Manitoba, and
Ontario, the use of helmets is mandatory for cyclists under the age of
18 years of age.[13][14][15][16]"

Perhaps you're unaware of the law? If so, perhaps you should read up
before arguing.


Last time I looked this is rec.BICYCLES.tech not rec.pedestrians.tech or
rec.car.tech. Therefore most of us who talk about helmets here are
talking about helmets as they pertain to BICYCLING.

If that's how you feel, you should have taken your "smash a melon"
helmet promoting argument to rec.melons.tech, or some other such newsgroup.

Why are so many people so dedicated to claiming that only _bicyclists_
should (or must) wear helmets, as if bicycling has tremendous brain
injury risk? Do those people not understand the numbers? Or, like the
laws, do those people just not bother to examine them?

--
- Frank Krygowski


I'm over 18 thus there is NO mandatory helmet law for me.

Cheers
  #38  
Old August 4th 19, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 5:15:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2019 8:21 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:21:50 AM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your head than normal foam.

I wonder if this is advertising BS or an actual improvement of the cell shape design. Since they are manufactured using a 3-D printing technology it is very simple for them to make improvements to the design.

At 28 times the protection I wouldn't have had a concussion in the first place so it is actually something to think about. I am paying about $400 a month for medication and in a constant worry that I will grow used to the medication and its effectiveness will fail. I already discovered that if I take these Saw Palmetto pills for enlarged prostate that it makes you pass the medication out more rapidly that you're supposed to and I start having micro-seizures.

I can't take any larger doses so that is always a problem.

I absolutely do not believe that a helmet can save your life and we've discussed this many times before. But I do believe that it can make the life you wouldn't have lost more livable.


F*cking hell another silly helmet thread. Well it keeps Frank and John B busy.......


Could you not tell the subject from the subject header? Sheesh!

If you don't want to read them, don't read them, Lou! What could be simpler?


--
- Frank Krygowski


I can do that as you can try not to respond to every helmet post. It took you less than 30 min for your first respond to the original post and after that another 8 posts of your usual same old same old. Do you have an algorithm running in the background scanning the word helmet and get a notification on you smartphone? Hey you are talking to us we can think for ourselves. What is that obsession of yours about helmets? You don't wear one? OK. No one is forcing you. Have a nice day.

Lou
  #39  
Old August 4th 19, 09:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 5:47:38 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2019 11:49 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:03:30 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Visors returned 10 years later with a softer
material and breakaway mounting)


But they blind you when you get down on the drops.


Yesterday evening, my wife and I rode the tandem out to a nearby town to
get dinner. We returned after sunset, happy to have our generator
headlight running.

But the sky still had quite a bit of light, especially as we started
home. In that situation, I find the bill of my cycling cap handy.
Shading the sky's brightness helps with low light vision. And it's even
handier when a car approaches with bright headlights.

The cycling cap makes it easy to adjust the position of the bill so the
glare is blocked but the road surface is visible.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I agree with Joy. Visors or a cap annoyingly block you field of view when riding in the drops or even low on the hoods. They are OK when riding more upright on a utility bike or ATB. I rely on good sunglasses when on my road bike.

Lou
  #40  
Old August 4th 19, 10:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets

On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 11:30:27 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 3:47:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2019 6:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I just got an advertisement from Trek in which they now claim that the latest Wavecell has not 28 times but 48 times the protection for your head than normal foam.

I wonder if this is advertising BS or an actual improvement of the cell shape design. Since they are manufactured using a 3-D printing technology it is very simple for them to make improvements to the design.

At 28 times the protection I wouldn't have had a concussion in the first place so it is actually something to think about. I am paying about $400 a month for medication and in a constant worry that I will grow used to the medication and its effectiveness will fail. I already discovered that if I take these Saw Palmetto pills for enlarged prostate that it makes you pass the medication out more rapidly that you're supposed to and I start having micro-seizures.

I can't take any larger doses so that is always a problem.

I absolutely do not believe that a helmet can save your life and we've discussed this many times before. But I do believe that it can make the life you wouldn't have lost more livable.


Perhaps, for certain values of "can."

Maybe we'll someday see if the Wavecell makes a difference. In that
case, perhaps they can sell it to those that actually has the largest
number of TBI injuries. That surely does not include bicyclists, despite
all the dishonest hype. Ask any honest ER doctor or TBI specialist.

In any case, it's pretty clear conventional bike helmets aren't working..
Cyclist concussions have soared since bike helmets became popular - just
the opposite of what was promised.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, please stop your invention. TBI has not "soared". In fact we have a smaller percentage of injuries and fatalities of bicyclists because they are more familiar to motorists these days and cycling becomes more common.


From "Senseless" in _Bicycling_ magazine, June 2013:

"Stat #3: As more people buckled on helmets, brain injuries also increased.. Between 1997 and 2011 the number of bike-related concussions suffered annually by American riders Â*increased by 67 percent, from 9,327 to 15,546..."

See http://fliphtml5.com/yilc/ntnn/basic

- Frank Krygowski
 




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