Question about bearing cones.

My missus has an Italian bike (Imperia) dating from, I'd guess, the
80's. The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted and creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements. I got some 3/8" cones, and they
fit the thread on the axle, but seem to be too big for the 3/16"
bearings (after a while, they push the bearings out of the cups and into
the dust cap). 3/16" inch cones just won't fit on the axle. I'm
guessing that 3/8" cones are required, but that either I bought
badly-made ones, or there is actually more to it than just getting the
right thread size. I can't find much on the web regarding this, so does
anyone here have any advice about this. Of course, I should probably
just get a new wheel, but I like to keep original parts going for as
long as possible.

In addition, when I needed to replace the bottom bracket bearing, I had
to find components with an 'Italian thread' (70mm wide, M36 x 24T). Am
I going to discover that everything on this is a bit 'different'.

On 10/28/2019 6:11 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My missus has an Italian bike (Imperia) dating from, I'd
guess, the 80's. The cones in the front wheel bearings are
very pitted and creaky, and I'd like to get some
replacements. I got some 3/8" cones, and they fit the
thread on the axle, but seem to be too big for the 3/16"
bearings (after a while, they push the bearings out of the
cups and into the dust cap). 3/16" inch cones just won't
fit on the axle. I'm guessing that 3/8" cones are required,
but that either I bought badly-made ones, or there is
actually more to it than just getting the right thread
size. I can't find much on the web regarding this, so does
anyone here have any advice about this. Of course, I should
probably just get a new wheel, but I like to keep original
parts going for as long as possible.

In addition, when I needed to replace the bottom bracket
bearing, I had to find components with an 'Italian thread'
(70mm wide, M36 x 24T). Am I going to discover that
everything on this is a bit 'different'.

First off, nearly everything on the bike except for ball
bearings has a metric specification, not SAE or Imperial[1].

Any markings on your front hub? Who made it? If you email
snapshots to me (hubshell and original axle set) I'm happy
to advise. Generally one replaces an axle set not individual
cones and as such complete axle sets are much more
available. New balls are always indicated BTW.

If the frame is indeed Italian (as opposed to Asian with
Italian brand name) from the 1980s then yes most probably
m36x24t. Cup thread matches frame and so you're correct
about 36mm fittings. However, spindle matches crank and in
the 1980s most cranks used asymmetric spindles in lengths
and patterns not well supported by modern cartridge crank
bearing units. What crank is it? Have you opened the BB? Is
there significant wear/damage or does it merely need new
balls and fresh lubricant?

[1] Your axle is not 3/16". It's either 8mm or 9mm or 9.5mm
or 10mm but the hub also needs a specific cone shape and the
dust caps will clear some cone outer diameters but not
others, etc etc.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, 28 October 2019 09:14:58 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2019 6:11 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My missus has an Italian bike (Imperia) dating from, I'd
guess, the 80's. The cones in the front wheel bearings are
very pitted and creaky, and I'd like to get some
replacements. I got some 3/8" cones, and they fit the
thread on the axle, but seem to be too big for the 3/16"
bearings (after a while, they push the bearings out of the
cups and into the dust cap). 3/16" inch cones just won't
fit on the axle. I'm guessing that 3/8" cones are required,
but that either I bought badly-made ones, or there is
actually more to it than just getting the right thread
size. I can't find much on the web regarding this, so does
anyone here have any advice about this. Of course, I should
probably just get a new wheel, but I like to keep original
parts going for as long as possible.

In addition, when I needed to replace the bottom bracket
bearing, I had to find components with an 'Italian thread'
(70mm wide, M36 x 24T). Am I going to discover that
everything on this is a bit 'different'.

First off, nearly everything on the bike except for ball
bearings has a metric specification, not SAE or Imperial[1].

Any markings on your front hub? Who made it? If you email
snapshots to me (hubshell and original axle set) I'm happy
to advise. Generally one replaces an axle set not individual
cones and as such complete axle sets are much more
available. New balls are always indicated BTW.

If the frame is indeed Italian (as opposed to Asian with
Italian brand name) from the 1980s then yes most probably
m36x24t. Cup thread matches frame and so you're correct
about 36mm fittings. However, spindle matches crank and in
the 1980s most cranks used asymmetric spindles in lengths
and patterns not well supported by modern cartridge crank
bearing units. What crank is it? Have you opened the BB? Is
there significant wear/damage or does it merely need new
balls and fresh lubricant?

[1] Your axle is not 3/16". It's either 8mm or 9mm or 9.5mm
or 10mm but the hub also needs a specific cone shape and the
dust caps will clear some cone outer diameters but not
others, etc etc.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Whenever I replace cones I take the entire axle assembly with me to the bike shop and I also take a couple of the original bearings if loose ones or a bearing cage if caged bearings.

Cheers

AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2019 6:11 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My missus has an Italian bike (Imperia) dating from, I'd
guess, the 80's.* The cones in the front wheel bearings are
very pitted and creaky, and I'd like to get some
replacements.* I got some 3/8" cones, and they fit the
thread on the axle, but seem to be too big for the 3/16"
bearings (after a while, they push the bearings out of the
cups and into the dust cap).* 3/16" inch cones just won't
fit on the axle.* I'm guessing that 3/8" cones are required,
but that either I bought badly-made ones, or there is
actually more to it than just getting the right thread
size.* I can't find much on the web regarding this, so does
anyone here have any advice about this.* Of course, I should
probably just get a new wheel, but I like to keep original
parts going for as long as possible.

In addition, when I needed to replace the bottom bracket
bearing, I had to find components with an 'Italian thread'
(70mm wide, M36 x 24T).* Am I going to discover that
everything on this is a bit 'different'.

First off, nearly everything on the bike except for ball bearings has a
metric specification, not SAE or Imperial[1].

Any markings on your front hub? Who made it? If you email snapshots to
me (hubshell and original axle set) I'm happy to advise. Generally one
replaces an axle set not individual cones and as such complete axle sets
are much more available. New balls are always indicated BTW.

If the frame is indeed Italian (as opposed to Asian with Italian brand
name) from the 1980s then yes most probably m36x24t. Cup thread matches
frame and so you're correct about 36mm fittings. However, spindle
matches crank and in the 1980s most cranks used asymmetric spindles in
lengths and patterns not well supported by modern cartridge crank
bearing units. What crank is it? Have you opened the BB? Is there
significant wear/damage or does it merely need new balls and fresh
lubricant?


I just fitted a Shimano BB - 70mm wide and M36 X 24T. Another one I had
lying around is much too small diameter, so I'm now sure it's Italian
made. Everything on it (including the old crank) has Ofmega stamped on
it; so at least I now have a brand to look for. There seems to be lots
of Ofmega stuff on eBay, so I don't feel so puzzled now.

[1] Your axle is not 3/16". It's either 8mm or 9mm or 9.5mm or 10mm but
the hub also needs a specific cone shape and the dust caps will clear
some cone outer diameters but not others, etc etc.


I filled it with new 3/16" balls, and that has made a big difference.
No play or strange clanking noises any more. I don't think it had ever
been opened up before. I have a jeweller's loupe to help my eyes with
close up work and the old bearings looked just awful.

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-5, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted and creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements... I can't find much on the web regarding this...

I've had good luck finding replacements he https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html

Steve

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:13:05 PM UTC-7, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-5, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted and creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements... I can't find much on the web regarding this...

I've had good luck finding replacements he https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html

Steve

Most decent shops have that exact box of cones. BTW, Ofmega stuff was an O.K. Campy knock-off, and they made all the Avocet stuff, some components better than others. I broke an Ofmega track crank arm.

-- Jay Beattie.

Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-5, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted and creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements... I can't find much on the web regarding this...

I've had good luck finding replacements he https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html

Steve


Thanks! I'm sure I can find something there. I'll see if they ship to
the UK :-)

BTW, when they talk of the 'diameter' (8, 9, 9.5, 10mm) is that the
diameter of the axle /before/ tapping (i.e. the bare bar), or is it the
overall diameter of the threaded bits (which generally look a bit larger
to me), or the 'bottoms' of the thread grooves? Does (for example) 8mm
translate directly to the M8 metric thread size?

jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:13:05 PM UTC-7, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-5, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted and creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements... I can't find much on the web regarding this...

I've had good luck finding replacements he https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html

Steve

Most decent shops have that exact box of cones. BTW, Ofmega stuff was an O.K. Campy knock-off, and they made all the Avocet stuff, some components better than others. I broke an Ofmega track crank arm.

-- Jay Beattie.


The Ofmega bits seems nicely made. I'd guess it was a good-quality
bike, and would like to keep it going as long as is practical. The most
annoying thing is trying to keep the side caliper brakes central. :-)

On 10/29/2019 3:33 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-5, Dan S.
MacAbre wrote:
The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted and
creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements... I can't find
much on the web regarding this...

I've had good luck finding replacements he
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html

Steve


Thanks! I'm sure I can find something there. I'll see if
they ship to the UK :-)

BTW, when they talk of the 'diameter' (8, 9, 9.5, 10mm) is
that the diameter of the axle /before/ tapping (i.e. the
bare bar), or is it the overall diameter of the threaded
bits (which generally look a bit larger to me), or the
'bottoms' of the thread grooves? Does (for example) 8mm
translate directly to the M8 metric thread size?

It's the outer diameter of the thread, less thread
tolerance[1]. Standard bolt-on fronts are m8x1.0, QR fronts
are m9x1.0 and so on. Typical:

https://i394.photobucket.com/albums/.../DIN912_M6.jpg

Cheaper fat tire style bikes use 'heavy duty' fronts with
m9.5x1.0 and m10x1.0 of generally lower quality.

Going back to earlier times (older than your bike), a host
of variables ensue such as French metric m9x0.9, Campagnolo
9f26, Raleigh 1/4-26W (measures 7.8mm) and mo

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-standards.jpg

[1] Standard hardware runs well below 100% thread engagement
so the actual measurement across the thread peaks will be
less than the nominal size. see also:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/FWTHREAD.JPG

and
https://www.engineersedge.com/thread...engagement.htm

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/29/2019 3:37 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:13:05 PM UTC-7, Steve
Weeks wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-5, Dan S.
MacAbre wrote:
The cones in the front wheel bearings are very pitted
and creaky,
and I'd like to get some replacements... I can't find
much on the web regarding this...

I've had good luck finding replacements he
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html

Steve

Most decent shops have that exact box of cones. BTW,
Ofmega stuff was an O.K. Campy knock-off, and they made
all the Avocet stuff, some components better than others.
I broke an Ofmega track crank arm.

-- Jay Beattie.


The Ofmega bits seems nicely made. I'd guess it was a
good-quality bike, and would like to keep it going as long
as is practical. The most annoying thing is trying to keep
the side caliper brakes central. :-)

Yes, Ofmega components are generally well made.

Clean the caliper and oil your fasteners. Adjust such that
arms move freely without end play. Lock adjustment.Secure
caliper to frame. Ensure wheel is centered in fork or
between stays.
Turn the centerbolt[1] until pads clear equally on both sides.

The arms float on the spring which is in the centerbolt slot.

Directions and diagram:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINTECH.JPG

[1] Better quality calipers have a wrench slot on the
centerbolt. Others may be turned with two wrenches, one on
the mounting bolt and one on the locknut or adjusting nut.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971