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#21
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
nil wrote:
jbeattie wrote: lock ring a good yank. With the serrations Where are those, one the spacers mentioned earlier? I advise you not to listen to anyone else on this subject except Al Muzi. During the Russian revolution civil war the Reds didn't have any visible rank system to tell their soldiers apart. Still, everyone knew who was the boss. A good system, I'd say... Otherwise tighten firm and not real tight. I think that the "crash" you're talking about is the serrations/semi-ratchet teeth on the inside of the lock ring. These are to keep the lock ring from backing off if it isn't tight enough. So, the lock ring bolt has serrations on the inside that has a semi-ratcheting property... but contrary to a real ratchet which goes "chirr chirr chirr" this goes "crash crash crash" with proportionally the more power in between and larger chunks of movement? Man, I have a bucket of worn out cassettes. Perhaps picking one apart is educational... The cassette should NOT rattle. If it does there is an incorrect spacer. I don't know if "rattle" is the sound. When fiddling with the cassette some two or three (?) sprockets were moving along, possibly making some sound, actually I don't remember, but if they did it wasn't very loud or alarming in character. The sprockets were not spinning but the amount of force to make them move was minimal. They seemed to be moving in small chunks. The cassette was brand new as said. When I put it on and pulled with the ratchet and socket, it crashed into a new position I think three times, and possibly if I had continued to pull, I could make more such sounds/movements. With every crash sound, it moved perhaps 30 degrees. I assume that you know the difference between a freewheel and a freehub. OK? If you have a vernier caliper you can measure the spacers and let Muzi know and he can straighten things out. This particular cassette is already on a bike but I will see if I can pick apart another, spent cassette and get back to you. However it could be another brand but why not. -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 69 Blogomatic articles - |
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#22
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 1:22:54 AM UTC-5, Emanuel Berg wrote:
nil wrote: jbeattie wrote: lock ring a good yank. With the serrations Where are those, one the spacers mentioned earlier? I advise you not to listen to anyone else on this subject except Al Muzi. During the Russian revolution civil war the Reds didn't have any visible rank system to tell their soldiers apart. Still, everyone knew who was the boss. A good system, I'd say... Otherwise tighten firm and not real tight. I think that the "crash" you're talking about is the serrations/semi-ratchet teeth on the inside of the lock ring. These are to keep the lock ring from backing off if it isn't tight enough. So, the lock ring bolt has serrations on the inside that has a semi-ratcheting property... but contrary to a real ratchet which goes "chirr chirr chirr" this goes "crash crash crash" with proportionally the more power in between and larger chunks of movement? Man, I have a bucket of worn out cassettes. Perhaps picking one apart is educational... The cassette should NOT rattle. If it does there is an incorrect spacer. I don't know if "rattle" is the sound. When fiddling with the cassette some two or three (?) sprockets were moving along, possibly making some sound, actually I don't remember, but if they did it wasn't very loud or alarming in character. The sprockets were not spinning but the amount of force to make them move was minimal. They seemed to be moving in small chunks. The cassette was brand new as said. When I put it on and pulled with the ratchet and socket, it crashed into a new position I think three times, and possibly if I had continued to pull, I could make more such sounds/movements. With every crash sound, it moved perhaps 30 degrees. I assume that you know the difference between a freewheel and a freehub. OK? If you have a vernier caliper you can measure the spacers and let Muzi know and he can straighten things out. This particular cassette is already on a bike but I will see if I can pick apart another, spent cassette and get back to you. However it could be another brand but why not. -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 69 Blogomatic articles - There is no lockring bolt. Its a serrated locking ring that screws into the cassette body. Mayeb this will help: http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#transplant Cheers |
#23
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote: On 06/03/2017 3:19 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: Hello again everyone! Now I've moved on from the Swedish and Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the most recent of bike technology, namely the mountain-bike or "MTB"! I read on the cassette that you should pull it 40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way. It is the well-known way, but OK. I know there is a tool for this - torque wrench, right? I don't have one, but I do have the everyday half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with all the teeth (?) - of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the reason I know this is every time I remove it, it is stuck like, very firmly! When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or four times. This seems to be normal. I asked the local guru who did bikes since the 80s. He also claimed he was a master after only two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand! But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big to be sand. Anyway what do you guys make of all this? Get a torque wrench and tighten it to 40nm. I have a couple of torque wrenches, but my cassette took does not have a socket wrench fitting -- so I use a adjustable wrench. Go ahead and hate on me, but I just give the lock ring a good yank. With the serrations, loosening is unlikely. But now I feel bad and will go out and find a tool with a socket wrench fitting. -- Jay Beattie No hating. The guy was asking for advice. Best advice is get the right tool. -- duane |
#24
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On Mon, 06 Mar 2017 21:19:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Hello again everyone! Now I've moved on from the Swedish and Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the most recent of bike technology, namely the mountain-bike or "MTB"! I read on the cassette that you should pull it 40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way. It is the well-known way, but OK. I know there is a tool for this - torque wrench, right? I don't have one, but I do have the everyday half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with all the teeth (?) - of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the reason I know this is every time I remove it, it is stuck like, very firmly! When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or four times. This seems to be normal. I asked the local guru who did bikes since the 80s. He also claimed he was a master after only two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand! But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big to be sand. Anyway what do you guys make of all this? The inner surface of the flange on the retaining nut is serrated and the outside surface of the small cassette cog is also serrated and the noise you hear is the serrations scrapping over each other. The separations serve to act as a locking method for the retaining nut. -- Cheers, John B. |
#25
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 01:53:04 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Mike Causer wrote: If you don't have enough experience to have calibrated hands then that's the only way. C'mon, compared to having things fail a half-decent torque-wrench is cheap. Mine are ex-military Britool from a motorcycle autojumble. Not quite up to Snap-On quality, but still good. I don't use them them on bicycles though, just use my hands ;-) Shouldn't ex-military British stuff be very good? Hey, it is where the industrial revolution began. By the way, if the industrial revolution happened in the southern hemisphere, do you think we would put screws in the other way around? A story I heard in the State of Maine where wooden boat building lobster fishing was very common. A Master boat builder sees one of the "hands" driving screws in with a hammer. Rolf! he shouts, "What the H___ do you think those screws got that slot in the head for?" Rolf looks up and says, "Oh yes Boss, that's to take them out with". -- Cheers, John B. |
#26
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 03:24:38 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Emanuel Berg wrote: I didn't look for spacers but the casette is brand new - Sunrace 8 11-32t. By the way, this notation, are the rest of the sprocket sizes deductible from it? The casettes look all symmetrical to me... Not really although probably most 8 speed 11 - 32 cassettes will have similar spacing between sprocket tooth counts. Usually with, maybe, a 1 tooth change at the smaller end and a larger jump at the large end. -- Cheers, John B. |
#27
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 05:39:54 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: jbeattie wrote: lock ring a good yank. With the serrations Where are those, one the spacers mentioned earlier? See http://tinyurl.com/z6h7dwz for an example. this is a pdf file buy the way. It shows a parts breakdown of an 11 speed cassette but the construction of all cassettes is similar. -- Cheers, John B. |
#28
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 21:48:32 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 10:52:04 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote: On 06/03/2017 3:19 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: Hello again everyone! Now I've moved on from the Swedish and Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the most recent of bike technology, namely the mountain-bike or "MTB"! I read on the cassette that you should pull it 40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way. It is the well-known way, but OK. I know there is a tool for this - torque wrench, right? I don't have one, but I do have the everyday half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with all the teeth (?) - of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the reason I know this is every time I remove it, it is stuck like, very firmly! When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or four times. This seems to be normal. I asked the local guru who did bikes since the 80s. He also claimed he was a master after only two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand! But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big to be sand. Anyway what do you guys make of all this? Get a torque wrench and tighten it to 40nm. I have a couple of torque wrenches, but my cassette took does not have a socket wrench fitting -- so I use a adjustable wrench. Go ahead and hate on me, but I just give the lock ring a good yank. With the serrations, loosening is unlikely. But now I feel bad and will go out and find a tool with a socket wrench fitting. -- Jay Beattie I've tightened many a cassette lockring by use of a large adjustable wrench. I just push on the wrench until the lockring stops clicking. I've NEVER had a cassette lockring come loose even those ones I've put on over a cassette with the last cog having no serrations. I just snug up the lockring on those until it feels tight. All of those cassettes were ridden for many rides of 100 kms or more. Cheers While admittedly I don't use a torque wrench a great deal it does depend largely on an individual's experience. Due to some "Command Decision" the A.F. Base where I was stationed decided to break up the athletic teams that were essentially professional players with no other duties, and put them out on the line. I ended up with a 6 foot plus basketball player who literally the strongest person I ever worked with. He could pick up a 150 lb. turbo supercharger and hold it over his head while the crew screwed in the mount bolts. We didn't let him be a mechanic though as with a 1/4" tee handle he would twist off 1/4" bolts when he tightened them. Some times a torque wrench is necessary :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#29
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On 3/6/2017 8:22 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote: Rattling high gear sprockets can indicate a missing spacer. On classic Seven cassettes there is a thin 1.0mm spacer between high gear and second highest, LH item he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/csspacr.jpg On this particular one, I noticed they (the high gear sprockets) were somewhat rotatable just fiddling with them, but far from spinning like a wheel or pulley. I didn't look for spacers but the casette is brand new - Sunrace 8 11-32t. (there are other possible issues, such as 11t sprocket on a pre-11t body and so on) Very interesting, the wheel and thus body are used stuff, I don't know how old. Is it too late to examine without having to remove the cassette? Still, could be useful next time... Look inside the 11t sprocket and you will see the splines do not go fully through to the outside. Add a 1mm spacer behind the low gear, lube and torque your lockring and that rattle will go away. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#30
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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm
On 3/7/2017 5:07 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote: On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote: On 06/03/2017 3:19 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: Hello again everyone! Now I've moved on from the Swedish and Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the most recent of bike technology, namely the mountain-bike or "MTB"! I read on the cassette that you should pull it 40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way. It is the well-known way, but OK. I know there is a tool for this - torque wrench, right? I don't have one, but I do have the everyday half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with all the teeth (?) - of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the reason I know this is every time I remove it, it is stuck like, very firmly! When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or four times. This seems to be normal. I asked the local guru who did bikes since the 80s. He also claimed he was a master after only two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand! But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big to be sand. Anyway what do you guys make of all this? Get a torque wrench and tighten it to 40nm. I have a couple of torque wrenches, but my cassette took does not have a socket wrench fitting -- so I use a adjustable wrench. Go ahead and hate on me, but I just give the lock ring a good yank. With the serrations, loosening is unlikely. But now I feel bad and will go out and find a tool with a socket wrench fitting. -- Jay Beattie No hating. The guy was asking for advice. Best advice is get the right tool. Excellent advice but it won't fix his problem as he appears to have incompatible parts. Adding a 1mm spacer behind low gear will lock his 11t-start cassette on his pre-11t cassette body. Oh, one more note: Lockrings for 11t are smaller OD. The wrong lockring will interfere with the chain. Just thought of that after Mr Berg's comment about 'bucket of parts'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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