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#102
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Chain Lube?
On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 3:50:14 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 11/19/2018 12:06 PM, wrote: On Monday, November 19, 2018 at 9:45:31 AM UTC-8, sms wrote: On 11/19/2018 8:56 AM, wrote: snip "The “King of Lubes” has three chain lubes: The EXTREME, ABSOLUTE DRY, and GOLD. All three are formulated to clean and lube at the same time when applied. " Not sure if I believe this. It's like combined shampoo and conditioner.. I suppose that I'll continue with the old-school method of cleaning a chain with petroleum based solvent and then lubricating it with chain lube. With a chain cleaner, I can clean a chain five minutes or so and then recycle dirty solvent. Well, I didn't believe it either but after trying it, it appears to work pretty well but you're wiping off the chain for a long time after using the stuff. The issue is that it takes several solvent changes before the solvent runs clean. From my web site on chain cleaning and lubrication: Why is this method the best? 1. The links are in motion as the pass through the solvent, with the rollers spinning and the links flexing. You cannot obtain this sort of link action with the chain off the bike in a bottle of solvent, or in a parts cleaner. As Sheldon Brown writes, "The on-the-bike system has the advantage that the cleaning machine flexes the links and spins the rollers. This scrubbing action may do a better job of cleaning the innards." 2. The chain gets cleaner with each repetition of the process, with the dirty solvent removed, the contaminants don't remain in the process. 3.Solvents such as kerosene do not leave rust-causing moisture in the chain like water-based solvents do. 4. Keeping the chain on the bicycle eliminates weakening the chain by rivet extraction. As Sheldon Brown writes, "...modern chains have rivets that are tighter fitting into the chain plates. The new rivets are difficult to remove and reinstall without damaging either the rivet or the side plate." 5. It requires very little time. 6. The Chain Master avoids spattering solvent on the wheel and tire. The Park chain cleaner really isn't all that effective. You end up replacing the solvent several times even on what looks like a clean chain. And the end result is a chain that is so dry that you have a hard time making sure that it is completely lubricated. I had some "Teflon" lube from some company or another and would put one drop on each link. Very time consuming and usually the chain would be noisy and wear much faster. So I switched to IRC Gold chain which at the time was advertised as never having to be lubed for the life of the chain. Well they changed that advertisement directly after I paid through the nose for three of them. I still have one on the shelf and it weighs twice as much as my Campy chain. |
#103
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Chain Lube?
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:44:19 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote: John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 12:42:07 -0800 (PST), wrote: snip As for bike maintenance? Well I learned that when I was 12 years old and got my first (second hand) bike. cheers, John B. Sure like most people here. Except I was maybe 8 or 9. But if I used the same maintenance procedures on my 11 speed double as I did on my first bike Id be buying a lot of chains and cassettes. I'm a classic case of the old story" "When I was a boy my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned." When I was 9 or 10 years old I learned to ride a bicycle by coasting down my friend's driveway and when I was about 12 I coerced my father into buying me a second, third, who know's, hand bike whereupon he told me that he was buying but I had to "take care of it". To make a long story short, the "coaster" brake didn't work very well so I fixed it.... consider how many times a 12 year old kid had to dis-assemble and assemble a coaster brake before it worked right? cheers, John B. |
#104
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Chain Lube?
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#105
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Chain Lube?
John B. slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:44:19 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 12:42:07 -0800 (PST), wrote: snip As for bike maintenance? Well I learned that when I was 12 years old and got my first (second hand) bike. cheers, John B. Sure like most people here. Except I was maybe 8 or 9. But if I used the same maintenance procedures on my 11 speed double as I did on my first bike Id be buying a lot of chains and cassettes. I'm a classic case of the old story" "When I was a boy my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned." When I was 9 or 10 years old I learned to ride a bicycle by coasting down my friend's driveway and when I was about 12 I coerced my father into buying me a second, third, who know's, hand bike whereupon he told me that he was buying but I had to "take care of it". Odd but I had the same experience with my father’s late learning. To make a long story short, the "coaster" brake didn't work very well so I fixed it.... consider how many times a 12 year old kid had to dis-assemble and assemble a coaster brake before it worked right? One of my first comp sci profs asked me if I knew Macs. I told him I could take them apart and put them back together. I’ll tell you the same thing he told me. It’s good to be handy. Yeah, my point was that things changed since then. Oiling a chain twice a month may have been good maintenance then. cheers, John B. -- duane |
#106
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Chain Lube?
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 01:16:30 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote: John B. slocomb wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:44:19 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 12:42:07 -0800 (PST), wrote: snip As for bike maintenance? Well I learned that when I was 12 years old and got my first (second hand) bike. cheers, John B. Sure like most people here. Except I was maybe 8 or 9. But if I used the same maintenance procedures on my 11 speed double as I did on my first bike I?d be buying a lot of chains and cassettes. I'm a classic case of the old story" "When I was a boy my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned." When I was 9 or 10 years old I learned to ride a bicycle by coasting down my friend's driveway and when I was about 12 I coerced my father into buying me a second, third, who know's, hand bike whereupon he told me that he was buying but I had to "take care of it". Odd but I had the same experience with my fathers late learning. To make a long story short, the "coaster" brake didn't work very well so I fixed it.... consider how many times a 12 year old kid had to dis-assemble and assemble a coaster brake before it worked right? One of my first comp sci profs asked me if I knew Macs. I told him I could take them apart and put them back together. Ill tell you the same thing he told me. Its good to be handy. Yeah, my point was that things changed since then. Oiling a chain twice a month may have been good maintenance then. I've always reckoned that the proper interval for chain lubeing was "when it was needed" :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#107
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Chain Lube?
On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 5:16:32 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
John B. slocomb wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:44:19 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. slocomb wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 12:42:07 -0800 (PST), wrote: snip As for bike maintenance? Well I learned that when I was 12 years old and got my first (second hand) bike. cheers, John B. Sure like most people here. Except I was maybe 8 or 9. But if I used the same maintenance procedures on my 11 speed double as I did on my first bike I’d be buying a lot of chains and cassettes. I'm a classic case of the old story" "When I was a boy my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned." When I was 9 or 10 years old I learned to ride a bicycle by coasting down my friend's driveway and when I was about 12 I coerced my father into buying me a second, third, who know's, hand bike whereupon he told me that he was buying but I had to "take care of it". Odd but I had the same experience with my father’s late learning. To make a long story short, the "coaster" brake didn't work very well so I fixed it.... consider how many times a 12 year old kid had to dis-assemble and assemble a coaster brake before it worked right? One of my first comp sci profs asked me if I knew Macs. I told him I could take them apart and put them back together. I’ll tell you the same thing he told me. It’s good to be handy. Yeah, my point was that things changed since then. Oiling a chain twice a month may have been good maintenance then. cheers, -- duane My father was a railway clerk for the Southern Pacific and I was always in aw of what he could teach himself in so short a time. He could only afford old used cars so he bought a Motors Manual and almost overnight could disassemble and reassemble anything on the car. They made hand written reports and when they had to learn to make typewritten reports he learned to two finger typewrite faster than I've ever been able to use two hands. They used a telegraph to communicate between stations and from across the room he learned how to telegraph by listening and then reading the reports after they had been sent. And that telegrapher could send 40 wpm! Of course really good guys could send more than 300 wpm but then that was using speed keys and automatic tape readers. He wanted to add a couple of rooms on to our house and his cousin was a carpenter. The cousin came over and they framed the house and then Dad roofed, walled and completed the wall board interior better than the house I live in now. He then built a complete backyard shed the size of a cabin that was missing only the plumbing to be a rental if he had wanted to. He had been an amateur boxer that had never lost a round let alone a match. Even when he was in his 50's and dying with emphysema I was with him with me sitting in the restaurant side of the place and him at the bar. Three punks were bothering some old guy at the other end of the bar because he didn't have any teeth. They ere pretty nasty about it. Finally my father told them that was enough and they smarted off to him. He walked around the bar and knocked all three down with one punch apiece and they got up and ran out.. His weakness was that he smoked heavily and when he wasn't working he was a drunk. I think I inherited his ability to look at something and understand it almost immediately. |
#108
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Chain Lube?
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:54:39 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 14/11/18 9:50 am, John B. slocomb wrote: As for the rest of your argument, I performed an actual experiment, rather then just imagining a result. I took an older chain, cleaned it in solvent with a final wash in MEK, allowed it to dry and then lubricated it with the above mentioned lube, allowed that to dry and then, using a chain tool, disassembled several links and yes, the lub had penetrated the chain and was evident in the rollers and on the pins. I subsequently did the same thing using my chain wax formula - much the same as James's mix - and the same thing happened. The hot wax did penetrate the links I often put a chain in hot wax/oil with the quick link put together, so I don't lose it in the mix. Of course I have to undo it to reinstall the chain on my bicycle, at which point I notice the wax/oil has penetrated the pins of the quick link very well, so I conclude that it has penetrated all the other pins and rollers very well too. I have carefully used a can of bike chain wax. While it does make the chain really quiet and it appears clean for a long time it deposits really hard deposits on the cogs and rings and doesn't seem to slow chain wear at all. |
#109
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Chain Lube?
On 11/23/2018 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:54:39 PM UTC-8, James wrote: On 14/11/18 9:50 am, John B. slocomb wrote: As for the rest of your argument, I performed an actual experiment, rather then just imagining a result. I took an older chain, cleaned it in solvent with a final wash in MEK, allowed it to dry and then lubricated it with the above mentioned lube, allowed that to dry and then, using a chain tool, disassembled several links and yes, the lub had penetrated the chain and was evident in the rollers and on the pins. I subsequently did the same thing using my chain wax formula - much the same as James's mix - and the same thing happened. The hot wax did penetrate the links I often put a chain in hot wax/oil with the quick link put together, so I don't lose it in the mix. Of course I have to undo it to reinstall the chain on my bicycle, at which point I notice the wax/oil has penetrated the pins of the quick link very well, so I conclude that it has penetrated all the other pins and rollers very well too. I have carefully used a can of bike chain wax. While it does make the chain really quiet and it appears clean for a long time it deposits really hard deposits on the cogs and rings and doesn't seem to slow chain wear at all. There's data that says otherwise. This article is old, but I think it's still valid: https://flic.kr/p/dkUGq6 https://flic.kr/p/dkULS1 -- - Frank Krygowski |
#110
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Chain Lube?
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