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Bicycle Safety and Licenses



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 15th 05, 06:00 PM
Werehatrack
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses

On 15 Jul 2005 09:14:46 -0700, wrote:

A license could accomplish two things:

1. A bicycle rider would have to know the laws appicable to bicycles
in order to obtain the license.


In other words, kids too young to understand the laws would be barred
from riding bikes. Intensely bad idea.

2. The threat of license revocation would aid in law enforcement in
the same manner as with the automobile license.


Corollary: Cops whose ticket quota for the month was low would be
stopping random cyclists to see if they had a bike license, adding
nothing to the safety of the general public and adding much
disincentive for the public to use bikes. More bureaucracy, more
regulations, inevitably an inspection program for the bikes, higher
costs for cyclists, and how long after the cyclist license was
required would it be before bike registrations, helmets and insurance
became mandatory? Two days? A week? Let's just *not* go there.

No, we need to be doing everything possible to *encourage* bike use,
not to restrict it or make it less attractive. The hazard that
cyclists pose to others is small. I can much more readily tolerate a
bad rider than a bad driver, and sometimes that's the choice. Around
here, the mere fact that a bike requires no license and a very low
cost of operation with no real requirements has reportedly shifted
some habitual bad drivers (and some owners of cars that should have
been junked) out of the driver's seat and into the saddle instead.
I'd very much favor keeping them there; if bike riding becomes a
restricted activity like driving, there will be less disincentive for
such drivers to simply get back behind the wheel.


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  #22  
Old July 15th 05, 06:19 PM
Werehatrack
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses

On 15 Jul 2005 09:20:32 -0700, wrote:

The use of public roadways has been somewhat restricted since the
advent of the automobile. I can't ride a horse or even a moped on an
Interstate Highway. And as a pedestrian I am restricted as to where
and how I can cross the roadway (jay walking laws).


But your *are* allowed to use the roadways as a pedestrian, equestrian
*or cylist* without the requirement for license, registration,
insurance or inspection as long as you adhere to the applicable laws.
A motor vehicle driver has those *added* responsibilities and
requirements precisely because of the potential for serious harm to
others from even momentary lapses in performance of the task of
vehicle operation. Cyclists and pedestrians are primarily a hazard
only to themselves, and as a result there is no mandate to restrict
their right to have access to the general public rights-of-way. It
should be noted both that limited-access highways are classified as a
different type of right-of-way and that in some areas the recognition
by government has been made that where no alternate right-of-way
exists, cyclist are permitted to use those roads as well.

The sole potential issue behind licensing is safety. You won't
improve *cycle* safety by requiring licenses, you will merely increase
government size and reduce the number of bikes on the road. Reducing
the number of bikes will decrease the amount of interaction between
cyclists and motor vehicle drivers, most likely leading to an
*increase* in the amount of unintentional hazardous behavior by the
latter group as they become less vigilant with lack of exposure. Add
that to the unlicensed-for-any-purpose drivers who will be back behind
the wheel because there's no longer any incentive to ride a bike, and
you've got a net loss all around.

Licensing cyclists is a bad idea. It doesn't make sense for safety
reasons, it's demonstrably bad from an environmental standpoint, and
it's rotten policy economically.
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  #25  
Old July 15th 05, 09:03 PM
Sheldon Brown
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses

An anonymous poster wrote:

A license could accomplish two things:

1. A bicycle rider would have to know the laws appicable to bicycles
in order to obtain the license.

2. The threat of license revocation would aid in law enforcement in
the same manner as with the automobile license.


That's true. And while we're at it, a law requiring that every citizen
have his/her social security number tatooed onto his/her forehead would
also be a boon to law enforcement.

A universal dusk to dawn curfew enforced by martial law would greatly
reduce many sorts of crime.

However there are limits to what a free society is prepared to sacrifice ...

And by the way, what about the breathtakingly cynical hypocrisy of using
the name "Patriot Act" for a law that has NOTHING to do with patriotism?

Sheldon "Freedom" Brown
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| What are politicians going to tell people when the |
| Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem? |
| -- William Simpson, A.C.L.U. |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

  #26  
Old July 15th 05, 09:20 PM
Chip C
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses



Sheldon Brown wrote:
wrote:

How do people feel about licenses to ride a bike ?


No WAY!

There is a common law right of all people to travel on the public
roadways, going back to prehistoric times.

When the automobile appeared on the scene, it was immediately recognized
that this was an unprecedentedly dangerous device, so special
requirements were created to regulate it.

It is clearly understood that the permission to operate a motor vehicle
on public roadways is a priviledge, not a right..

None of this has any legal effect on everybody's right to travel the
roads under their own power.

Sheldon "A Right, Not A Priviledge" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts


Hmmm. Is the line in the sand more defensibly drawn at "operating a
powered vehicle" or "operating a machine of any type"? I'd never
propose requiring a license to pedestrianize your way about town, but
is a bike not more like a car than a pair of feet? Is the presence of a
motor the big deal, or the quantitative ability to cause damage and
injuries to others?

What about licensing not riders but bikes and making them carry actual
legible number plates, a la Kronans perhaps, so a complainant could at
least hope to identify the miscreants among us? Unsecurability of the
number plates would probably kibosh that. Odd there aren't more stolen
car license plates, really.

(In addition to car license plates, should we issue drivers with big
cards being their DL numbers, and require them to position the cards
visibly in the rear window of whatever car they're driving? Should
these cards be colour coded to indicate status as a new driver, or one
convicted of certain offences recently?)

Back on the topic, I suspect that most of the offenders that the OP saw
actually *had* DLs in their pockets, except for those who'd had theirs
yanked due to DUIs (always my first assumption when I see an obvious
non-cyclist - you know who I mean - on a bike). So most have been,
nominally, exposed to the usual prattle of rules and regs. Rather than
licenses I'd prefer a massive advertising campaign along the lines of
"bikes belong on the road and they'd damn well better act like it"
accompanied by a crackdown on crummy cycling *and* bike-unfriendly
motoring (ideally, as others have mentioned, by cops on bikes).

Chip C
Toronto

PS What's up with Kronan number plates, anyway? Are they actual valid
license numbers, anywhere?

  #27  
Old July 15th 05, 09:54 PM
Pat
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses



: : How do people feel about licenses to ride a bike ?
:
: I don't think it's practical or necessary. What's needed is
: enforcement. When scofflaw cyclists start getting traffic tickets,
: they'll think twice about running red lights.
:
: Art Harris

I think what we need is education. Education for the children about bicycles
not being sidewalk toys, as a start. Even adults think there are no rules
for bicycles. Education is a start, but enforcement of existing laws is
good, too.

Pat in TX
:


  #28  
Old July 15th 05, 09:56 PM
Pat
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses


:
: The sole potential issue behind licensing is safety. You won't
: improve *cycle* safety by requiring licenses, you will merely increase
: government size and reduce the number of bikes on the road.

I disagree. You will improve cycle safety by requiring education as to
rights and responsibilities of the cyclist. Most people here in Texas have
not a single clue about laws applicable to bicycles. Oh yes, with education,
safety could definitely be improved.



:
: Licensing cyclists is a bad idea. It doesn't make sense for safety
: reasons, it's demonstrably bad from an environmental standpoint, and
: it's rotten policy economically.

No, it's not a bad idea if done properly. It will increase safety quite a
bit when cyclists stop doing inane stunts on the public roadways.

Pat in TX


  #29  
Old July 15th 05, 09:58 PM
Pat
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses


"Dion Dock" wrote in message
...
: Let us not forget that motor vehicles require licenses. I don't know
where
: you live, but I routinely see the following:
:
: * running yellow/red lights
: * speeding
: * failure to come to a complete stop
: * turning without signal
: * weaving
: * tailgating
: * passing bicycles without leaving enough room (3' per the Oregon drivers
: manual)
:
: I think people hold bikes to a higher standard; maybe because they know
the
: chances of a cyclist getting a ticket are much lower.
:
: A license would solve this how?
:
: -Dion

It would help solve the problems because the operators of the bicycles would
have to take a course in the laws pertaining to bicycle use. I think people
do not hold bikes to a higher standard---they just like to gripe when
somebody gets away with something that they would like to do.

Pat in TX


  #30  
Old July 15th 05, 10:00 PM
Pat
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Default Bicycle Safety and Licenses


: A license could accomplish two things:
:
: 1. A bicycle rider would have to know the laws appicable to bicycles
: in order to obtain the license.
:
: In other words, kids too young to understand the laws would be barred
: from riding bikes. Intensely bad idea.

In Germany, the kids have to take the cycling course at age 10. Is that too
young to understand? No, it isn't. They assume that kids younger than that
are not riding in the street, anyway.





 




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