Cool Seat Post Clamp If Bicycle Manufacturer Forgot Seat Stay RackMounts

On 11/26/2015 9:45 AM, Duane wrote:
On 26/11/2015 9:29 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell
decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is something
you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Granted I don't do a lot of mountain biking but I've never heard of
this. AFAICS the seat position on a mountain bike is set similar to a
road bike, based on your leg position WRT the pedals. Why would it be
different when you climb? I guess I can see where you might want to do
this on a long descent. With road bikes you see aggressive riders sit
on the top tube on descents. I guess you can't do this on a mountain bike?

On super-steep descents (essentially, going down a "drop-off") some
mountain bikers like to lower their saddle, get their butt way back over
the rear wheel, and have their belly pretty much on the saddle. It
helps prevent an over-the-handlebars crash.

But that's pretty extreme. Most people on mountain bikes never do that
sort of descent, because most mountain bikes aren't used for
YouTube-quality gonzo riding. And I'd bet that among mountain bikers
who do that sort of descent, a majority still don't lower their saddles.
Those who make a habit of it might install a dropper seatpost, not
just a quick release.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 26/11/2015 14:45, Duane wrote:
On 26/11/2015 9:29 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell
decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is something
you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Granted I don't do a lot of mountain biking but I've never heard of
this. AFAICS the seat position on a mountain bike is set similar to a
road bike, based on your leg position WRT the pedals. Why would it be
different when you climb? I guess I can see where you might want to do
this on a long descent. With road bikes you see aggressive riders sit
on the top tube on descents. I guess you can't do this on a mountain bike?

SMS is actually at least partly right about this one, which makes a change.

On descents on an MTB you want your arse way back over the back wheel
and down low - it's not streamling they're after (why people sit on the
top tube on road descents), but avoiding going over the bars - the
descents are way steeper so the COG matters.

I'm not so sure about level vs climbing though.

However QR seat collars are now passe - dropper posts (which he
subsequently mentioned) are the posher alternative.

On 26/11/2015 10:35 AM, Clive George wrote:
On 26/11/2015 14:45, Duane wrote:
On 26/11/2015 9:29 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell
decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts
but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is something
you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Granted I don't do a lot of mountain biking but I've never heard of
this. AFAICS the seat position on a mountain bike is set similar to a
road bike, based on your leg position WRT the pedals. Why would it be
different when you climb? I guess I can see where you might want to do
this on a long descent. With road bikes you see aggressive riders sit
on the top tube on descents. I guess you can't do this on a mountain
bike?

SMS is actually at least partly right about this one, which makes a change.

On descents on an MTB you want your arse way back over the back wheel
and down low - it's not streamling they're after (why people sit on the
top tube on road descents), but avoiding going over the bars - the
descents are way steeper so the COG matters.

I'm not so sure about level vs climbing though.

However QR seat collars are now passe - dropper posts (which he
subsequently mentioned) are the posher alternative.


Thanks.

On 2015-11-26 14:29:53 +0000, sms said:

On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is something you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Come on. You change the saddle height 30 times during a ride? Steep
section? You deal with it by shifting your weight. That is part of the
fun. Stop, judge the grade and than: 'hmm I think it is 20%, so better
lower my sadlle 3 cm. Theoretical nonsense.



--

Lou

On 11/26/2015 8:46 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip

Come on. You change the saddle height 30 times during a ride? Steep
section? You deal with it by shifting your weight. That is part of the
fun. Stop, judge the grade and than: 'hmm I think it is 20%, so better
lower my sadlle 3 cm. Theoretical nonsense.

Not nonsense at all.

The need for seat height changes during a mountain bike ride has spurred
the invention of the seat posts with remote height adjustment because it
was too much of a hassle for riders to be stopping and adjusting their
seat posts, especially if it was terrain with a lot of ups and downs, as
opposed to a lot of climbing followed by a lot of descending.

If we ride from our house to the closest place for mountain biking
(Fremont Older Open Space Preserve) we want the seats higher during the
road riding part of the ride. In Santa Cruz, where we often go to Wilder
Ranch State Park, most people park outside the park and ride in down a
paved path from the nearest road (because of the extortionate parking
cost in the parking lot operated by the state park).

It would be rare to see a mountain bike with a seat post that was not
height-adjustable without tools. "Dropper posts" are used at the higher
end, but you're not going to get one included with a $500 or under
mountain bike.

The theft issue that was brought up is valid, so if you're parking your
mountain bike somewhere then you definitely want to secure the seat in
some way.

You can learn more about this he
http://betterride.net/blog/2014/mountain-bike-cockpit-setup-better-handling-bike-industry-slowly-catching-lucky/
and
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/Trek-Invents-Automatic-Dropper-Seatpost-No-More-Sitting-Down-Required,335.

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 9:29:58 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
Seat post theft is an issue that is mitigated with a seat post leash.
See http://www.bikeahead.com/seat-leash-p/pla02407.htm. Even a seat
post clamp with an Allen bolt is not much of a challenge for someone
wanting to steal a seat and seat post. The leash makes them move on to
the next bike. I have these on all the bicycles in the fleet and we have
never had a stolen seat.

A pair of pocket size mini-bolt cutters would go right throught that "leash".

Note that this thread started with a quick-release seat rack and is now about quick-release seat post skewers.

Cheers

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 11:46:41 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-11-26 14:29:53 +0000, sms said:

On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is something you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Come on. You change the saddle height 30 times during a ride? Steep
section? You deal with it by shifting your weight. That is part of the
fun. Stop, judge the grade and than: 'hmm I think it is 20%, so better
lower my sadlle 3 cm. Theoretical nonsense.



--

Lou

I don't know if they're still made or sold but there used to be a large V-type spring that clamped the upper end to the seatpost and the lower end to the frame. You loosend the quick-release on the fly, the seatpost lowered, you locked the quick-release and rode, then when you wanted to you loosened the quick-release again and the V-type spring returned the saddle to the original height.

Btw, most MTB riders did NOT stop to adjust their saddle height even without a spring return aid.

Cheers

On 11/26/2015 12:15 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 11:46:41 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-11-26 14:29:53 +0000, sms said:

On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is something you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Come on. You change the saddle height 30 times during a ride? Steep
section? You deal with it by shifting your weight. That is part of the
fun. Stop, judge the grade and than: 'hmm I think it is 20%, so better
lower my sadlle 3 cm. Theoretical nonsense.



--

Lou

I don't know if they're still made or sold but there used to be a large V-type spring that clamped the upper end to the seatpost and the lower end to the frame. You loosend the quick-release on the fly, the seatpost lowered, you locked the quick-release and rode, then when you wanted to you loosened the quick-release again and the V-type spring returned the saddle to the original height.

Btw, most MTB riders did NOT stop to adjust their saddle height even without a spring return aid.

Cheers


Hite Rite, the neat new product of 1987 (or somewhere near then)

Hite Rite does exactly what you describe, and does it well,
but fashion changed as it always does.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/26/2015 10:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/26/2015 12:15 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 11:46:41 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-11-26 14:29:53 +0000, sms said:

On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
On 25/11/2015 6:53 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/25/2015 2:09 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
sms wrote:
I got my spousal unit a mountain bike today. Annoyingly, Accell
decided
to not include rack mounts on the seat stays and she definitely is
going
to want a rack to carry stuff rather than wear a pack.

There are several seat post clamps that include the rack mounts
but I
could only find one that was also quick release, which is
something you
really want on a mountain bike:

Why is a quick release something I really want on a mountain bike?
I don't have one and I don't want one.

It's very important on a mountain bike, not necessary on a road bike,
for obvious reasons.


Why is it important on a mountain bike? I personally wouldn't buy a
bike with a quick release seat. In case of my son, his bike came with
one and I replaced it.

Quick release makes it easier to steal unless you want to carry it
around with you. And then if you carry it around you have to make
sure
to mark it properly to get it back in the right place. What about a
mountain bike makes this useful?

Because you often want to change the seat height during a ride. On the
road portion of the ride you'll want it at the height you'd have on a
road bike. During an off-road ride you'll want it at different heights
for climbing, descending, and level sections.


Come on. You change the saddle height 30 times during a ride? Steep
section? You deal with it by shifting your weight. That is part of the
fun. Stop, judge the grade and than: 'hmm I think it is 20%, so better
lower my sadlle 3 cm. Theoretical nonsense.



--

Lou

I don't know if they're still made or sold but there used to be a
large V-type spring that clamped the upper end to the seatpost and the
lower end to the frame. You loosend the quick-release on the fly, the
seatpost lowered, you locked the quick-release and rode, then when you
wanted to you loosened the quick-release again and the V-type spring
returned the saddle to the original height.

Btw, most MTB riders did NOT stop to adjust their saddle height even
without a spring return aid.

Cheers


Hite Rite, the neat new product of 1987 (or somewhere near then)

Hite Rite does exactly what you describe, and does it well, but fashion
changed as it always does.

Hite Rite Ad: http://oi50.tinypic.com/124zyhi.jpg

Story:
http://ridingresearch.com/2013/05/01/hite-rite-to-dropper-seat-post-oligopoly-of-innovation/

"the idea of lifting a seat post for a climb and dropping it for a
descent is still the same"

On 11/26/2015 1:09 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 9:29:58 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/26/2015 5:09 AM, Duane wrote:
Seat post theft is an issue that is mitigated with a seat post leash.
See http://www.bikeahead.com/seat-leash-p/pla02407.htm. Even a seat
post clamp with an Allen bolt is not much of a challenge for someone
wanting to steal a seat and seat post. The leash makes them move on to
the next bike. I have these on all the bicycles in the fleet and we have
never had a stolen seat.

A pair of pocket size mini-bolt cutters would go right throught that "leash".

Note that this thread started with a quick-release seat rack and is now about quick-release seat post skewers.

Yep. That's going to happen.


--
- Frank Krygowski