External-bearing BBs?

Chalo wrote:
Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
people a whole lot of trouble and cut the ******* up before disposing
of it.

Andre Jute wrote:
A good French bike with the best French parts will have plenty of time
to ingratiate itself. My old Peugeot mountain bike, from the top of
their range in the late 80s, early 90s,

Chalo wrote:
If I understand correctly, Peugeots had gotten with the program by the
time MTBs were the dominant bikes on the scene. If that's true, then
there is nothing wrong with a Peugeot MTB versus another sort of MTB
from the same time period. Same with Raleighs; they gave up using
proprietary thread standards by sometime in the '80s, and after that
their main problems were aesthetic.

French origin is never a problem per se; it's the French thread system
that French manufacturers insisted on using long after it constituted
a disservice to themselves and their customers. All the "wonderful"
French road bikes of the bike boom years were thus afflicted. And if
some misguided parts manufacturer had seen fit to make French-threaded
parts all this time, the French thread folly would have been nothing
more than a source of confusion. That didn't happen, though. French-
threaded headsets, BBs, freewheel hubs, pedals, etc., are all
unavailable historical curiosities that render their respective bikes
practically unmaintainable-- $120 bearing cups for $400 cranks
notwithstanding.

The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
a reasonable cost.

Good summary.

Several European brands sold regular Asian bikes, rebadged, both road
and MTB models, in various years for the US market. Raleigh's
Nottingham bikes were 26tpi right to the bitter end. By that time
[1985], the US models built at Nottingham were down to pretty much only
Sports and DL-1 Roadsters[1], other bicycles being mostly Taiwan ROC by
then.

[1] Team Pro, Pro and Comp were built at the Carlton shop, not Nottingham
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On May 13, 1:11 am, Chalo wrote:
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Hank wrote:

bfd wrote:

Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate in
external bearing bbs, check out the new Phil Wood:

http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm

Holy spit, you can get 'em in French!

Isn't that a bit like getting a saddle for an epileptic horse? Sooner
or later there will be other issues.

As the old tale about delaying disaster goes, "maybe the horse will
sing!"

I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing down for a new BB for
an old frame.

It's not oldness that is the source of the problem, it's Fwenchness.
You can lay down a bundle for a BB, cranks, and pedals to make that
smelly, leg-humping little dog learn a new trick or two, but the next
thing you know it will want a headset, which will then make you find a
new fork. Then it will be a seatpost in 23.7mm or whatever ungodly
obsolete size, and then-- joy of joys-- the freewheel turns out to be
Fwench (and worn out).

Pretty soon you've spent a small fortune, more than enough to get a
real bike. But it's still a peculiar, smelly, leg-humping little dog
that probably has more bad surprises in store.

Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
people a whole lot of trouble and cut the ******* up before disposing
of it.

Chalo

Oh, no argument there...95% of the value in my PX-10 (updated with a
full Campy Centaur group, aside from the PW BB) is sentimental, since
I've had the thing since I was 13 (I turn 35 next month). For so many
years, I built up in my head what a great bike it was, I was kind of
taken aback when I tried out bikes with, well, BETTER geometry than
the parallel 74s of my PX-10. I don't see myself ever getting rid of
it, but if something happened to it, I'd happily replace it with a
Mercian King of Mercia to fill my "lugged Reynolds classy European
bike with room for fenders & 28mm tires" slot.

Someone wrote:

Quick question on external-bearing BB's: Are they all compatible?
Are the shaft diameters and spacing of these integrated cranks
the same? Â*I haven't worked on enough of these to find out by
myself yet. Â*I have a Shimano FC-R700 crankset, and someone near
me is selling a set of Zipp ceramic external-bearing BB for
cheap, but need to know if the two are compatible before putting
my money down.

Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate
in external bearing BB's, check out the new Phil Wood:

Â*http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm

I don't see what holds the spindle and what sort of spindle fits
that assembly. Â*I also doubt what the free-fit aluminum sleeve and
a free fit (no taper or press) spindle that seems to fit in that
sleeve won't fret giving a grinding squeaking BB. Â*I think PW would
do better with a cross section view of the assembly than a shiny
photograph with inadequate words to explain what the selected view
shows.

OK, presuming the outboard bearing is from the Zipp VumaQuad
crankset, how about checking out the installation manual, which does
show the spindle interface:

http://www.zipp.com/Portals/0/Produc...ank_Manual.pdf

Oh, this shows the Isis crank interface, which is dead anyway because
it is a flawed design based on the wrong assumptions about
steel-to-aluminum interfaces. We have also read about spindle
failures, here in this newsgroup. However, the endless pdf does not
show what locates the spindle in the bearings, radially or axially.
--
Jobst Brandt

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Hank wrote:

bfd wrote:

Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate in
external bearing bbs, check out the new Phil Wood:

http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm

Holy spit, you can get 'em in French!

Isn't that a bit like getting a saddle for an epileptic horse? Sooner
or later there will be other issues.

As the old tale about delaying disaster goes, "maybe the horse will
sing!"

I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing down for a new BB for
an old frame.

It's not oldness that is the source of the problem, it's Fwenchness.
You can lay down a bundle for a BB, cranks, and pedals to make that
smelly, leg-humping little dog learn a new trick or two, but the next
thing you know it will want a headset, which will then make you find a
new fork. Then it will be a seatpost in 23.7mm or whatever ungodly
obsolete size, and then-- joy of joys-- the freewheel turns out to be
Fwench (and worn out).

In fairness to France, the Internet has made it a lot easer. To sum up:
YST universal BB, $20. Headset: ISO 1". Fork: recycle off of whatever
similar-vintage non-French bike you can lay your hands on. Lather,
rinse, repeat.

Pretty soon you've spent a small fortune, more than enough to get a
real bike. But it's still a peculiar, smelly, leg-humping little dog
that probably has more bad surprises in store.

Life is too short to suffer Fwench bikes or 26 tpi Raleighs. At the
first appearance of trouble, they should be recycled. Better yet,
don't even wait for the first trouble to appear and risk developing an
affinity for an inadvisable machine. Save yourself and several other
people a whole lot of trouble and cut the ******* up before disposing
of it.

Can't do that. I have already sold off a Peugeot, a Raleigh, and a
Motobecane (might have even had Swiss threads) in the last few weeks.
All the frames (along with an Ascente Prolite with triple-fade paint)
sold for cash and parts (new 165mm MTB cranks, woot!) which I will
either put on my bike, put in my pile, or turn into beer.

I turned French and English bikes into beer and MTB parts! You hear
that, Chalo? I am an alchemist of the awesome!

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd wrote:
On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo wrote: The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
a reasonable cost.

I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).

For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

Someone wrote:

Quick question on external-bearing BB's: Are they all compatible?
Are the shaft diameters and spacing of these integrated cranks
the same? Â*I haven't worked on enough of these to find out by
myself yet. Â*I have a Shimano FC-R700 crankset, and someone near
me is selling a set of Zipp ceramic external-bearing BB for
cheap, but need to know if the two are compatible before putting
my money down.

Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate
in external bearing BB's, check out the new Phil Wood:

Â*http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm

I don't see what holds the spindle and what sort of spindle fits
that assembly. Â*I also doubt what the free-fit aluminum sleeve and
a free fit (no taper or press) spindle that seems to fit in that
sleeve won't fret giving a grinding squeaking BB. Â*I think PW would
do better with a cross section view of the assembly than a shiny
photograph with inadequate words to explain what the selected view
shows.

OK, presuming the outboard bearing is from the Zipp VumaQuad
crankset, how about checking out the installation manual, which does
show the spindle interface:

http://www.zipp.com/Portals/0/Produc...ank_Manual.pdf

We've already seen that pdf. Again, there is no indication of what
locates the spindle radially or axially, just technical sounding text
but no engineering answers. Without a radial press fit the spindle
will fret and creak in use and I have no idea what holds it axially.

Rather than show a cross section through the assembly, we get an
exploded view that shows none of the important functions. This
suggests that either they are hiding something or assume the customer
is incapable of understanding a drawing rather than a 3D image.

Jobst Brandt

On May 13, 8:17*pm, Ozark Bicycle
wrote:
On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd wrote:

On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo wrote: The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
a reasonable cost.

I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
size. *For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).

For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
wheel:

http://www.bikelugs.com/store/index.php?intCategoryID=3

This may be what is needed to make 650B mainstream! Stay tune....

wrote:
Someone wrote:

Quick question on external-bearing BB's: Are they all compatible?
Are the shaft diameters and spacing of these integrated cranks
the same? I haven't worked on enough of these to find out by
myself yet. I have a Shimano FC-R700 crankset, and someone near
me is selling a set of Zipp ceramic external-bearing BB for
cheap, but need to know if the two are compatible before putting
my money down.

Don't know much about Zipp bearings, but if you want the ultimate
in external bearing BB's, check out the new Phil Wood:

http://www.philwood.com/BB-Outboard%20Set.htm

I don't see what holds the spindle and what sort of spindle fits
that assembly. I also doubt what the free-fit aluminum sleeve and
a free fit (no taper or press) spindle that seems to fit in that
sleeve won't fret giving a grinding squeaking BB. I think PW would
do better with a cross section view of the assembly than a shiny
photograph with inadequate words to explain what the selected view
shows.

OK, presuming the outboard bearing is from the Zipp VumaQuad
crankset, how about checking out the installation manual, which does
show the spindle interface:

http://www.zipp.com/Portals/0/Produc...ank_Manual.pdf

We've already seen that pdf. Again, there is no indication of what
locates the spindle radially or axially, just technical sounding text
but no engineering answers. Without a radial press fit the spindle
will fret and creak in use and I have no idea what holds it axially.

Bearings are pressfit in bearing cups. Bearing cups are screwed into the
bottom bracket shell. Axel is pressfit into the right crankarm. Axel
slides into the bearings. Left crankarm is srewed on the axel. The
bearings are preloaded axially by the wave spring between left crankarm
and left bearing.


Rather than show a cross section through the assembly, we get an
exploded view that shows none of the important functions. This
suggests that either they are hiding something or assume the customer
is incapable of understanding a drawing rather than a 3D image.

Most customers are and give a damn.

Lou

In article
,
bfd wrote:

On May 13, 8:17*pm, Ozark Bicycle
wrote:
On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd wrote:

On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo wrote: The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
a reasonable cost.

I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
size. *For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).

For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
wheel:

I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
Bigger wheels really are better.

--
Michael Press

On May 14, 1:55 pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,



bfd wrote:
On May 13, 8:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
wrote:
On May 13, 12:32 pm, bfd wrote:

On May 13, 9:17 am, Chalo wrote: The revival of the obsolete French 650B tire and rim size by Rivendell
looks particularly foolish to those of us who worked in bike shops in
the '80s and '90s and had to break the sorry news to customers that
their otherwise perfectly decent bikes couldn't get routine repairs at
a reasonable cost.

I disagree, its not only Rivendell pushing the 650B (584mm) wheel
size. For example, QBP, arguably the largest parts distributor in the
US is pushing the 650B Bleriots

Apparently, the Bleriot (a joint venture between Riv and QBP) has an
appointment with the guillotine in the next few months. It will be
joined in hades by the "650B only" Saluki, it's over-priced brother-in-
folly. In the future, the Homer-thingy will be 700C in larger sizes
and 650B in smaller sizes (at least until the hobbits work off all
that unsaleable 650B rim and tire inventory).

For once, Barnum was wrong!! :-)

I wouldn't be so smug, 650B is not dead yet! With the weak US dollar,
Rivendell appears to be consolidating its lineup and will be offering
650B on its next batch of small AHH (58cm and smaller), mixtes - yes,
those are still alive!, and on the highly anticipated Bombadil MTB.
Further, as I stated above, Soma is getting into 650B and plans to
have a frameset, and associated wheels/rims/tires out soon. Moreover,
Kirk Pacenti has come out with an entire line of mtb components,
including shock forks, tire and complete wheelset, for the new 27.5"
wheel:

I would consider a R. bicycle but for this. In the frame size
for me they insist on putting small wheels instead of wheels
for grown-ups. Sure, 584 with fat tires is _almost_ as big
as 622. Now put 32mm tires on 622 and we have a bigger wheel again.
Bigger wheels really are better.


See my slightly tongue in cheek "Paselagasm" thread. That's 32 on
622.--and you're right, it's better than just about anything. But
that's not the point. It's a Schick and Gillette sorta deal.