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#181
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 10/10/2018 1:25 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 9:35:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 1:35 AM, news18 wrote: On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of riding in the rain. Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself. Plenty of ventilation. That's what I usually use, except for the sandals part, although I have friends who love their riding sandals. The mud flap on my fender takes care of most road spray at my feet. Shoe covers over my toe clips offer further help when necessary. But I'm still not really comfortable riding in the rain, unless it's the lightest sprinkle. I've never used a rain cape and hate things that flap. For long rides in the rain, I wear basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU Showers Pass jacket, PI Amfib tights, Gore booties (or one of my four or five pairs of booties). I wear a poly pro base layer and a mid-layer. This time of year, wool is a good mid-layer. I have some lightweight long-finger Giro gloves my son got on pro deal that are good for early fall, and I switch to more robust gloves as the temperatures drop. That video has snippets of Larch Mountain (cut back and forth with hills practically in my back yard -- odd), which is a 14.5 mile climb and probably the hardest ride for picking clothing since it can be 50F at the bottom and snow at the top. You have to have something that vents really well for the climb, stays relatively dry and zips up tight for the descent. I also take a light vest and an ear band or balaclava to put on at the top. I've told this story before, but the RT from my house to the top of Larch Mountain is 90 miles depending on route, and I did it with some friends entirely in the rain -- all day from beginning to end. Everyone got hypothermic on the descent. We had to stop repeatedly to warm up. Half the group called their wives for a ride home from Corbett. I had pretty good layering and revitalized with a life-saving corn dog at the Corbett store (and stood over a heating vent) http://columbiariverimages.com/Image...t_06-30-14.jpg , and although I suffered in the freezing rain coming down the mountain, the ride home was reasonably comfortable. Everything soaks through eventually, and you have to pick layers that will keep you reasonably warm when wet. IMO, booties are the most important. I can't stand cold swamp feet. Everybody has fenders and rain bikes. You get shunned on a group ride if you don't have flaps on your fenders. https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheap...7632139896627/ I understand your clothing approach. It's similar to what I did for long rides in winter, where every item is very specific to the conditions and all chosen to work together. One problem for me is that if it's going to be raining a lot, I'll just stay home. (We don't get a long rainy season like you do.) The corollary is this: If I'm out riding and it begins to rain, I'm in clothes much different than you describe. Two rainy rides this year started off fine and dry, and rain wasn't predicted until long after I got back. So the weatherman goofed again. For one of the rides, I had just slogged through some long distasteful project - perhaps income tax? - and I wanted to burn off steam with a quick 15 miler. I wasn't even in riding clothes. When the downpour came, all I had was my rain cape in my seat bag. Unfortunately, my fender flap had somehow escaped from its normal place at the bottom of my handlebar bag. I'll readily admit a rain cape is far from perfect. I ride on the hoods, and I get an irritating puddle in the cape between my forearms. I usually sit on the back of the cape, but sides do flap and let water in. And the fabric against my (usually) bare forearms makes them feel wet and clammy. (Maybe I should add some polypro arm warmers to the rain cape bag.) As I see it, the main benefit of the cape is that it keeps the legs somewhat dry without requiring any special costume down there. It worked, at least after a fashion, when riding home from work in casual slacks. At one time, John Forester tried to sell custom fitted rain capes. As I recall you had to send in a bunch of measurements of your body on the bike, and he (or someone) made up something that was kept taut and un-flappy by your body. But I was never tempted to actually buy one. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#182
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 10/10/2018 12:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ "At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout the day, as well as at night." ... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course! I don't use flash mode on my front lights though. Then you disagree with the source you cited? No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode. The "breathe mode" on the light that I cited is a good choice for daytime use. It's not annoying but it's more visible than a steady light which tends to blend in. It'd like the modulated motorcycle DRLs. Well they aren't actually more visible than non-modulated lights but they are perceived as a vehicle that is moving rather than some other light source. |
#183
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 10/10/2018 3:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ "At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout the day, as well as at night." ... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course! I don't use flash mode on my front lights though. Then you disagree with the source you cited? No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode. Speaking of visible enough: My wife and I just returned from a little ride. We rode out to the suburban branch of our credit union to cash a check, then a bit beyond it into sort of semi-rural roads. We returned by different roads. We were on some quiet residential streets, some former farm roads that are now short cuts to housing developments, a bit on an arterial road or two with 50 mph traffic, etc. Quite a few miles were on lanes that were obviously too narrow to share (like 9 feet wide) so we rode at lane center. As usual, we had no problems with any drivers. (Well, except a couple who were clogging things up while they seemed to be looking for entrances to some obscure businesses). And there was absolutely no indication that anyone had any trouble seeing us. Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered lights, but neither of us had them on. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#184
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 2018-10-10 14:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 1:25 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 9:35:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 1:35 AM, news18 wrote: On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of riding in the rain. Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself. Plenty of ventilation. That's what I usually use, except for the sandals part, although I have friends who love their riding sandals. The mud flap on my fender takes care of most road spray at my feet. Shoe covers over my toe clips offer further help when necessary. But I'm still not really comfortable riding in the rain, unless it's the lightest sprinkle. I've never used a rain cape and hate things that flap. For long rides in the rain, I wear basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU Showers Pass jacket, PI Amfib tights, Gore booties (or one of my four or five pairs of booties). I wear a poly pro base layer and a mid-layer. This time of year, wool is a good mid-layer. I have some lightweight long-finger Giro gloves my son got on pro deal that are good for early fall, and I switch to more robust gloves as the temperatures drop. That video has snippets of Larch Mountain (cut back and forth with hills practically in my back yard -- odd), which is a 14.5 mile climb and probably the hardest ride for picking clothing since it can be 50F at the bottom and snow at the top. You have to have something that vents really well for the climb, stays relatively dry and zips up tight for the descent. I also take a light vest and an ear band or balaclava to put on at the top. I've told this story before, but the RT from my house to the top of Larch Mountain is 90 miles depending on route, and I did it with some friends entirely in the rain -- all day from beginning to end. Everyone got hypothermic on the descent. We had to stop repeatedly to warm up. Half the group called their wives for a ride home from Corbett. I had pretty good layering and revitalized with a life-saving corn dog at the Corbett store (and stood over a heating vent) http://columbiariverimages.com/Image...t_06-30-14.jpg , and although I suffered in the freezing rain coming down the mountain, the ride home was reasonably comfortable. Everything soaks through eventually, and you have to pick layers that will keep you reasonably warm when wet. IMO, booties are the most important. I can't stand cold swamp feet. Everybody has fenders and rain bikes. You get shunned on a group ride if you don't have flaps on your fenders. https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheap...7632139896627/ I understand your clothing approach. It's similar to what I did for long rides in winter, where every item is very specific to the conditions and all chosen to work together. One problem for me is that if it's going to be raining a lot, I'll just stay home. (We don't get a long rainy season like you do.) The corollary is this: If I'm out riding and it begins to rain, I'm in clothes much different than you describe. Two rainy rides this year started off fine and dry, and rain wasn't predicted until long after I got back. So the weatherman goofed again. During a serious downpour last year I waited in front of a traffic light. T-shirt completely soaked, same for the shorts. Since I had just come off a muddy trail a brown puddle formed around my MTB. A guy in a car pulls up next to me, rolls down the passenger window. "Dude, it's raining out there!" For one of the rides, I had just slogged through some long distasteful project - perhaps income tax? - and I wanted to burn off steam with a quick 15 miler. I wasn't even in riding clothes. When the downpour came, all I had was my rain cape in my seat bag. Unfortunately, my fender flap had somehow escaped from its normal place at the bottom of my handlebar bag. This is where one would want to find a brewpub nearby 8-) -- SCNR, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#185
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 2018-10-10 14:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 3:14 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ "At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout the day, as well as at night." ... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course! I don't use flash mode on my front lights though. Then you disagree with the source you cited? No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode. Speaking of visible enough: My wife and I just returned from a little ride. We rode out to the suburban branch of our credit union to cash a check, then a bit beyond it into sort of semi-rural roads. We returned by different roads. We were on some quiet residential streets, some former farm roads that are now short cuts to housing developments, a bit on an arterial road or two with 50 mph traffic, etc. Quite a few miles were on lanes that were obviously too narrow to share (like 9 feet wide) so we rode at lane center. As usual, we had no problems with any drivers. (Well, except a couple who were clogging things up while they seemed to be looking for entrances to some obscure businesses). And there was absolutely no indication that anyone had any trouble seeing us. Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered lights, but neither of us had them on. Some people are not so lucky in the lane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGD5P_LHEHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abqysSwOcIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqbbiRxoWR4 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#186
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 1:57:03 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 1:26:01 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 9:35:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 1:35 AM, news18 wrote: On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of riding in the rain. Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself. Plenty of ventilation. That's what I usually use, except for the sandals part, although I have friends who love their riding sandals. The mud flap on my fender takes care of most road spray at my feet. Shoe covers over my toe clips offer further help when necessary. But I'm still not really comfortable riding in the rain, unless it's the lightest sprinkle. I've never used a rain cape and hate things that flap. For long rides in the rain, I wear basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU Showers Pass jacket, PI Amfib tights, Gore booties (or one of my four or five pairs of booties). I wear a poly pro base layer and a mid-layer.. This time of year, wool is a good mid-layer. I have some lightweight long-finger Giro gloves my son got on pro deal that are good for early fall, and I switch to more robust gloves as the temperatures drop. That video has snippets of Larch Mountain (cut back and forth with hills practically in my back yard -- odd), which is a 14.5 mile climb and probably the hardest ride for picking clothing since it can be 50F at the bottom and snow at the top. You have to have something that vents really well for the climb, stays relatively dry and zips up tight for the descent. I also take a light vest and an ear band or balaclava to put on at the top. I've told this story before, but the RT from my house to the top of Larch Mountain is 90 miles depending on route, and I did it with some friends entirely in the rain -- all day from beginning to end. Everyone got hypothermic on the descent. We had to stop repeatedly to warm up. Half the group called their wives for a ride home from Corbett. I had pretty good layering and revitalized with a life-saving corn dog at the Corbett store (and stood over a heating vent) http://columbiariverimages.com/Image...t_06-30-14.jpg , and although I suffered in the freezing rain coming down the mountain, the ride home was reasonably comfortable. Everything soaks through eventually, and you have to pick layers that will keep you reasonably warm when wet. IMO, booties are the most important.. I can't stand cold swamp feet. Everybody has fenders and rain bikes. You get shunned on a group ride if you don't have flaps on your fenders. https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheap...7632139896627/ -- Jay Beattie. I still remember the bicycling adage folr when riding in the rain especially a heavy rain. "You're wet and cold or you're wet and warm but either way you're wet". That adage was true whether one was wearing waterproof breathable clothing, waterproof only clothing or regular clothing. When honking up a steep climb or otherwise exerting myself I found that the waterproof breathable jackets didn't vent sweat or other body moisture fast enough to prevent my clothing getting wet. At least the jacket was windproof which stopped me from getting hypothermia. BTW, true hypothermia requires medical treatment and can NOT be overcome simple by standing someplace warm. In fact true hypothermia plus an external heating source can be fatal. One of the greatest treatments for hypothermia these days is to give the victim WARM air or oxygen via a face mask so that the body warms from the inside towards the outside. Well, lucky for me, I was riding with my panniers filled with, among other things, a heart bypass machine and an O2 bottle. I used the bypass machine to recirculate and warm my blood and huffed a little on the 02. There were a whole bunch of other cyclists suffering like me, so I warmed their blood too, and then I pulled them back to Portland with my rope. I always keep rope with me so I can tow people. We all stopped at a brewpub on the way home. The people at the pub said, "hey, don't you know that it's raining out there!" We had a big laugh together. -- Jay Beattie. |
#187
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 10/10/2018 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 14:29, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 3:14 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ "At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout the day, as well as at night." ... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course! I don't use flash mode on my front lights though. Then you disagree with the source you cited? No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode. Speaking of visible enough: My wife and I just returned from a little ride. We rode out to the suburban branch of our credit union to cash a check, then a bit beyond it into sort of semi-rural roads. We returned by different roads. We were on some quiet residential streets, some former farm roads that are now short cuts to housing developments, a bit on an arterial road or two with 50 mph traffic, etc. Quite a few miles were on lanes that were obviously too narrow to share (like 9 feet wide) so we rode at lane center. As usual, we had no problems with any drivers. (Well, except a couple who were clogging things up while they seemed to be looking for entrances to some obscure businesses). And there was absolutely no indication that anyone had any trouble seeing us. Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered lights, but neither of us had them on. Some people are not so lucky in the lane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGD5P_LHEHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abqysSwOcIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqbbiRxoWR4 You can find videos of almost anything on the web. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVl-6-A9ZO4 Over 40,000 motorist deaths per year in the U.S. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#188
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 07:54:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-10-09 17:01, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote: [...] ... but having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change socks, even sitting on the roadside curb. And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple. As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance. It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have panniers for their laptops and stuff. Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly noticeable in broad daylight. Compared to a MagicShine or similar light many red and green position lights on ships are rather dim. Also, I do not need to be seen from 3mi away but from 1/2mi away I sometimes want to be seen. I see. A light that can be seen from a 3 mile distance is rather dim while a light that can be seen from 1/2 a mile is O.K.??? The police in Bangkok directing traffic in the early morning use flashlights which are very visible in the early morning but can hardly be seen in full daylight. They need to get better flashlights. I used to have one that could light up a hillside 1/2 mile from here. In broad summer daylight? Me thinks that you exaggerate just a tiny bit. But then, that isn't unusual. Even the light from the more powerful light houses (1,000,000 candle power) isn't visible from any distance in tropical daylight. I can only assume that your super powerful lights are like a St. Christopher medal on the handle bars that you "just know" will keep you safe on your travels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ I don't use flash mode on my front lights though. -- Cheers John B. |
#189
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 2018-10-10 15:44, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 07:54:40 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-09 17:01, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote: [...] ... but having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change socks, even sitting on the roadside curb. And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple. As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance. It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have panniers for their laptops and stuff. Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly noticeable in broad daylight. Compared to a MagicShine or similar light many red and green position lights on ships are rather dim. Also, I do not need to be seen from 3mi away but from 1/2mi away I sometimes want to be seen. I see. A light that can be seen from a 3 mile distance is rather dim while a light that can be seen from 1/2 a mile is O.K.??? https://www.go2marine.com/product/16...onet-base.html Navigation light: 30W incandescent, efficiency about 20 lumens/watt (if you are lucky), omnidirectional 360 degrees, only vertically focused. Mine: 8W LED, efficiency about 100 lumens/watt, not omnidirectional but 60 degree horizontal spread, similar vertical focus. I trust you can do the math. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#190
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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!
On 10/10/2018 2:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 14:29, Frank Krygowski wrote: Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered lights, but neither of us had them on. Some people are not so lucky in the lane. How do you explain to someone that just because they engaged in dangerous behavior and got lucky that it does not prove that what they did was intelligent or logical? In their minds, the fact that they were lucky is absolute proof that what they did was a good idea. My father smoked two packs a day for about 40 years and did not get lung cancer so that must prove that smoking was not a problem despite all the evidence to the contrary. |
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