Brifters On A 9-Speed Deore Triple?

On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.

I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was compatible
with everything else.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 1:23:25 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.
I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was compatible
with everything else.

And many chain rings are in short supply right now, even rather common Shimano rings. And what is worse is that the price of an outer ring far exceeds what I used to pay for entire cranks. https://tinyurl.com/yarc62r4 When it comes time to replace my rings, I'm going to hunt around for knock-offs..

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/12/2020 19:46, Mark Hughes wrote:
I would like the wisdom of the great minds here to help me with a project.

I'm putting together a 2019 Kona Sutra to use as a touring bike. Originally, it was a Deore triple, 9-speed, with bar end shifters. At the moment, it is in pieces. The goal is to put brifters on it.

Here's a link to the bike as it was originally sold. I have all the components listed, except the wheels.

(I bought it from a fellow who tried to set the bike up with Shimano's GRX components without realizing that the bottom bracket shell is mountain bike-sized -- 73mm. A 28/38 SLX crankset came along with everything else.)


You might want to consider some Sensah Ignite from aliexpress, about $60
for both brifters.

I bought the 8-speed Sensah Reflex a couple of weeks ago to replace a
broken Claris right shifter and I'm amazed at how good they are.

Just one lever, but in actual use, with winter gloves, it feels a lot
like the Claris a tap to move to a smaller cog and a swing to move to a
bigger cog. Actually it is better than the Claris,

I'm not sure how long they will last, but my last two right Claris
shifters only lasted 6,000 km, they are a third the price so if they
last more than 2,000km I'm on to a winner.

On 12/14/2020 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 1:23:25 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.
I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was compatible
with everything else.

And many chain rings are in short supply right now, even rather common Shimano rings. And what is worse is that the price of an outer ring far exceeds what I used to pay for entire cranks. https://tinyurl.com/yarc62r4 When it comes time to replace my rings, I'm going to hunt around for knock-offs.

I'll bet the increased prices are largely a result of proprietary
"standards," AKA deliberate incompatibility. Even without patent
protection, those practices result in lower production runs and fewer
competing manufacturers. That reduces availability and raises prices for
everyone, even those who use plain vanilla components.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:04:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/14/2020 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 1:23:25 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.
I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was compatible
with everything else.

And many chain rings are in short supply right now, even rather common Shimano rings. And what is worse is that the price of an outer ring far exceeds what I used to pay for entire cranks. https://tinyurl.com/yarc62r4 When it comes time to replace my rings, I'm going to hunt around for knock-offs.

I'll bet the increased prices are largely a result of proprietary
"standards," AKA deliberate incompatibility. Even without patent
protection, those practices result in lower production runs and fewer
competing manufacturers. That reduces availability and raises prices for
everyone, even those who use plain vanilla components.

Even worse, in this case simply a different Shimano model as Shimano
markets quite a number of variations. See https://tinyurl.com/y8amyz3q


But honestly would you want a low priced chain ring for your top of
the line crank set? Why, people might laugh!
--
Cheers,

John B.

wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7
speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear
derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down
the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike.
1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end
click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my
7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by
clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse
required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.


Same here.

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 3:17:38 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:04:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/14/2020 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 1:23:25 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.
I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was compatible
with everything else.

And many chain rings are in short supply right now, even rather common Shimano rings. And what is worse is that the price of an outer ring far exceeds what I used to pay for entire cranks. https://tinyurl.com/yarc62r4 When it comes time to replace my rings, I'm going to hunt around for knock-offs.

I'll bet the increased prices are largely a result of proprietary
"standards," AKA deliberate incompatibility. Even without patent
protection, those practices result in lower production runs and fewer
competing manufacturers. That reduces availability and raises prices for
everyone, even those who use plain vanilla components.
Even worse, in this case simply a different Shimano model as Shimano
markets quite a number of variations. See https://tinyurl.com/y8amyz3q


But honestly would you want a low priced chain ring for your top of
the line crank set? Why, people might laugh!

I'll get one of those 105 rings and draw in "Ultegra" or "Dura Ace" with a sharpie, or just black-out the 105. You can now get vinyl material and print up "decals" on your home printer. I'll make it a "Super Number One Dura-Ace Exclusive Private Collection." These do it yourself vinyl decals will become the new drillium. I'm going to turn my commuter into a Pinarello..

-- Jay Beattie

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 15:42:25 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 3:17:38 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:04:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/14/2020 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 1:23:25 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think it was an advancement over friction shifters.
I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was compatible
with everything else.

And many chain rings are in short supply right now, even rather common Shimano rings. And what is worse is that the price of an outer ring far exceeds what I used to pay for entire cranks. https://tinyurl.com/yarc62r4 When it comes time to replace my rings, I'm going to hunt around for knock-offs.

I'll bet the increased prices are largely a result of proprietary
"standards," AKA deliberate incompatibility. Even without patent
protection, those practices result in lower production runs and fewer
competing manufacturers. That reduces availability and raises prices for
everyone, even those who use plain vanilla components.
Even worse, in this case simply a different Shimano model as Shimano
markets quite a number of variations. See https://tinyurl.com/y8amyz3q


But honestly would you want a low priced chain ring for your top of
the line crank set? Why, people might laugh!

I'll get one of those 105 rings and draw in "Ultegra" or "Dura Ace" with a sharpie, or just black-out the 105. You can now get vinyl material and print up "decals" on your home printer. I'll make it a "Super Number One Dura-Ace Exclusive Private Collection." These do it yourself vinyl decals will become the new drillium. I'm going to turn my commuter into a Pinarello.

-- Jay Beattie

The trouble is that those Japanese Elves have made most of the Shimano
chain rings with a different number of bolt holes or holes in the
wrong place and they just aren't interchangeable any more.

But never fear, the Chinese are here, and I'm sure that"Cheap
Charley", i.e. lower priced, chain rings will be available in all
shapes and sizes :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/14/2020 3:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going
from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur
did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of
those freewheels. It was moved up and down the freewheel
by how much the human hand moved the shift lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a click
shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new Trek
520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7 speed
cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7 speed
Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But shifting by
clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No touch,
thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I think
it was an advancement over friction shifters.

I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it, but
not enough to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a
collection of improvements in the rest of the system: Better
control cables, fancier cog teeth, better derailleur
geometry, etc. Those are necessary to support the clicks,
and they make things very nice even for friction shifting.
My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs. The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of
adjustment until it settles back down. For those times I
just switch the bar ends to friction mode and it's perfectly
fine. Shifting is very easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which was
probably impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super dedicated
rider. She's over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like
most such people, she's riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is
notorious for not shifting, and for being content in
whatever gear she's in. She would probably be fine with five
rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done
accumulating miles for the year. He took his bike in for new
chain, cogs and chainrings, thinking it was going to be a
quick turnaround. The shop took his bike apart, then
realized they had to special order the oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything was
compatible with everything else.



Add not-roller chain with interrupted sideplates to your list.

I would suspect the fold/unfold shift symptom relates to
gear casing issues. That problem may be insurmountable on
your folder.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/14/2020 5:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 1:23:25 PM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2020 3:01 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2020 6:29 PM, wrote:

Back in the late 1970s, early 1980s when we were going
from 5 to 6 to 7 speed freewheels, the rear derailleur
did not care. Same rear derailleur worked for all of
those freewheels. It was moved up and down the
freewheel by how much the human hand moved the shift
lever.
THOSE were the days! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Well.......I remember the first time I bought/rode a
click shifting bike. 1992 summer when I got a brand new
Trek 520 touring bike with bar end click shifters. 7
speed cassette. Which was the same number cogs as my 7
speed Suntour freewheel on my previous bike. But
shifting by clicking!!!!!!! Oh man that was so great. No
touch, thought, finesse required. Just click it baby! I
think it was an advancement over friction shifters.
I do agree, click shifting is an advancement. I like it,
but not enough
to convert my friction shifting bikes to index.

Regarding finesse - I think what made index possible is a
collection of
improvements in the rest of the system: Better control
cables, fancier
cog teeth, better derailleur geometry, etc. Those are
necessary to
support the clicks, and they make things very nice even
for friction
shifting. My case in point is my folding bike, 9 cogs.
The folding &
unfolding sometimes seems to knock the indexing out of
adjustment until
it settles back down. For those times I just switch the
bar ends to
friction mode and it's perfectly fine. Shifting is very
easy.

Vaguely related is the ever increasing cog count, which
was probably
impossible without all those other improvements.

One good friend of mine is a super strong, super
dedicated rider. She's
over 10,000 miles for the year. Of course, like most such
people, she's
riding 11 cogs and STI. But she is notorious for not
shifting, and for
being content in whatever gear she's in. She would
probably be fine with
five rear cogs, just as I am.

Another high mileage friend of mine is suddenly done
accumulating miles
for the year. He took his bike in for new chain, cogs and
chainrings,
thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround. The shop
took his bike
apart, then realized they had to special order the
oddball chainring he
needed. It's not like the days when (almost) everything
was compatible
with everything else.

And many chain rings are in short supply right now, even
rather common Shimano rings. And what is worse is that the
price of an outer ring far exceeds what I used to pay for
entire cranks. https://tinyurl.com/yarc62r4 When it
comes time to replace my rings, I'm going to hunt around
for knock-offs.

I'll bet the increased prices are largely a result of
proprietary "standards," AKA deliberate incompatibility.
Even without patent protection, those practices result in
lower production runs and fewer competing manufacturers.
That reduces availability and raises prices for everyone,
even those who use plain vanilla components.



Which has been a baseline or background problem in our
industry for as long as I can remember.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/esoteric.html

When standards are too rigid there's no profit and no
innovation. Where standards are very lax, nothing fits
anything and it all costs too much when you can find a part
at all. This is the normal give-and-take of humans, of
industry, of markets.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971