No keyed washer on headset

Rick Warner wrote:

Thanks all for the comments on the washer. I can live without a key,
just was curious that this never had one.

I have cleaned the frame, coated inside of tubes with framesaver
and starting to put it back together. The headset had bearings in
retainers top and bottom, 20 x 5/32". Not quite sure of the year
or model of headset, but the bike is early 90's and the components
all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset it likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?). Anyway, the headset does
not seem to fit correctly with those retainer bearings; as tight as I
can wrench it it still seems to need to be tightened a bit more. I
suspect that at least the lower race had larger bearings (3/16" ?)
originally. Anyone know? Any way to find out?

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on
bottom/ small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a
Campagnolo headset the pieces will say so. Many
manufacturers use offbrand headsets in otherwise Campagnolo
bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get another
opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Rick Warner wrote:

Thanks all for the comments on the washer. I can live without a key,
just was curious that this never had one.

I have cleaned the frame, coated inside of tubes with framesaver
and starting to put it back together. The headset had bearings in
retainers top and bottom, 20 x 5/32". Not quite sure of the year
or model of headset, but the bike is early 90's and the components
all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset it likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?). Anyway, the headset does
not seem to fit correctly with those retainer bearings; as tight as I
can wrench it it still seems to need to be tightened a bit more. I
suspect that at least the lower race had larger bearings (3/16" ?)
originally. Anyone know? Any way to find out?

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on
bottom/ small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a
Campagnolo headset the pieces will say so. Many
manufacturers use offbrand headsets in otherwise Campagnolo
bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get another
opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset is likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?).

I've been playing with some 1970's / 1980's nuovo record and triomphe
headsets recently. if you clean the top of the ball bearing retainer
and look at it carefully, it should say "brev campagnolo italy" if its
campy. otherwise its generic. The only other place it probably says
campy if its a lower-end model, such as victory / triomphe /athena, is
if you removed the races from the head tube and look at the outside of
the top race. the "brev campagnolo italy" is normally pressed up
against the inside of your head tube where nobody can ever see it.
victory/tiomph crown races don't say anything on the bottom ; nuovo
record ones identify as brev campagnolo italy.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset is likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?).

I've been playing with some 1970's / 1980's nuovo record and triomphe
headsets recently. if you clean the top of the ball bearing retainer
and look at it carefully, it should say "brev campagnolo italy" if its
campy. otherwise its generic. The only other place it probably says
campy if its a lower-end model, such as victory / triomphe /athena, is
if you removed the races from the head tube and look at the outside of
the top race. the "brev campagnolo italy" is normally pressed up
against the inside of your head tube where nobody can ever see it.
victory/tiomph crown races don't say anything on the bottom ; nuovo
record ones identify as brev campagnolo italy.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

A Muzi wrote in message ...
Rick Warner wrote:


Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on
bottom/ small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a
Campagnolo headset the pieces will say so. Many
manufacturers use offbrand headsets in otherwise Campagnolo
bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get another
opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

Thanks for the input. I know which way the retainers go, and they
were correct. Over the weekend I replaced them with 5/32" loose
balls, and the issue is the same. Perhaps I will just get it as tight
as I can and let it go at that for a while, and eventually replace
it with a known entity.

- rick

A Muzi wrote in message ...
Rick Warner wrote:


Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on
bottom/ small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a
Campagnolo headset the pieces will say so. Many
manufacturers use offbrand headsets in otherwise Campagnolo
bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get another
opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

Thanks for the input. I know which way the retainers go, and they
were correct. Over the weekend I replaced them with 5/32" loose
balls, and the issue is the same. Perhaps I will just get it as tight
as I can and let it go at that for a while, and eventually replace
it with a known entity.

- rick

Rick Warner writes:

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on bottom/
small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a Campagnolo headset
the pieces will say so. Many manufacturers use off brand headsets in
otherwise Campagnolo bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get
another opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

I think you mean the ball cage and these only fit one way with 20 balls
on those Campagnolo bearings.

Thanks for the input. I know which way the retainers go, and they
were correct. Over the weekend I replaced them with 5/32" loose
balls, and the issue is the same. Perhaps I will just get it as
tight as I can and let it go at that for a while, and eventually
replace it with a known entity.

I don't know what you mean by "as tight as I can" but the head bearing
should be adjusted so that it turns freely between fingertips (without
the wheel and handlebars attached to the fork. The closest way to
approach that without removing the bars and wheel is to lift the
bicycle tilted forward just enough so that the front wheel lazily
swings to center with the bearing adjusted so that it does not chatter
when bouncing the front wheel on the floor.

This routine requires some skill but it is a lot faster than taking
the bars and wheel off to do it the precise way. This will also
reveal an indexed bearing because when it doesn't chatter it will
index, coming to an oscillating stop in a set of dimples. The trick
is to not tilt the bicycle farther forward than just enough to make a
properly adjusted bearing swing from side to side, other wise it won't
reveal whether the bearing is too tight.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.13.html

Jobst Brandt

Rick Warner writes:

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on bottom/
small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a Campagnolo headset
the pieces will say so. Many manufacturers use off brand headsets in
otherwise Campagnolo bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get
another opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

I think you mean the ball cage and these only fit one way with 20 balls
on those Campagnolo bearings.

Thanks for the input. I know which way the retainers go, and they
were correct. Over the weekend I replaced them with 5/32" loose
balls, and the issue is the same. Perhaps I will just get it as
tight as I can and let it go at that for a while, and eventually
replace it with a known entity.

I don't know what you mean by "as tight as I can" but the head bearing
should be adjusted so that it turns freely between fingertips (without
the wheel and handlebars attached to the fork. The closest way to
approach that without removing the bars and wheel is to lift the
bicycle tilted forward just enough so that the front wheel lazily
swings to center with the bearing adjusted so that it does not chatter
when bouncing the front wheel on the floor.

This routine requires some skill but it is a lot faster than taking
the bars and wheel off to do it the precise way. This will also
reveal an indexed bearing because when it doesn't chatter it will
index, coming to an oscillating stop in a set of dimples. The trick
is to not tilt the bicycle farther forward than just enough to make a
properly adjusted bearing swing from side to side, other wise it won't
reveal whether the bearing is too tight.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.13.html

Jobst Brandt