bringing a bike on a plane

mark wrote:
wrote


The second time was on a charter flight. They said "Bikes must be
boxed." It was _much_ more hassle and, as I described, quite scary
to
watch the way they were treated.

From what I've heard, charter airlines and discount airlines tend to
treat
all baggage more roughly than major airlines. My guess is that they
don't
pay as well as the major airlines, and they tend to allow less time
for
loading and unloading aircraft to save labor costs and other costs.
This is
just a guess, any airline industry people care to comment?

I've always arrived quite early for my flights, I think this gives
the
baggage handlers a little more time to cope with what is, after all,
a more
cumbersome piece of luggage than most. I suspect that if I were to
show up
at the last minute with an unboxed bike it would be treated a little
less
carefully by any airline.

A little more detail on our incident: We flew that charter into
Dublin, Ireland, and it was the baggage crew at Dublin that pulled the
"Stack 'em on the truck roof, then push them off" trick. Would those
people be employed by the airport?

I agree that it's likely that unweildy luggage could make those guys
surly.




Does British Airways still allow unboxed bikes? If so, I'd fly
them
next time.

They do allow unboxed bikes, but the website shows some fairly
stringent
size limits for their Airbus aircraft...

Well, that's good news. I was afraid everyone was now requiring boxing.

:
: A little more detail on our incident: We flew that charter into
: Dublin, Ireland, and it was the baggage crew at Dublin that pulled the
: "Stack 'em on the truck roof, then push them off" trick. Would those
: people be employed by the airport?
:
: I agree that it's likely that unweildy luggage could make those guys
: surly.

I would like to hear more about your Ireland trip. I am thinking of going
there sometime this summer.

Pat in TX

Pat wrote:
:
I would like to hear more about your Ireland trip. I am thinking of
going
there sometime this summer.

What would you like to know?

: Pat wrote:
: :
: I would like to hear more about your Ireland trip. I am thinking of
: going
: there sometime this summer.
:
: What would you like to know?

First of all, I probably would not be taking a bike. Did you notice any
places to rent bikes? Did you stay at Bed and Breakfast places, and, if so,
what is an acceptable price range. The last time I was in Ireland was in
1986, and I bet the prices have gone up a bit since then, when it was
approx. 1 pound per person per night. What month did you go? Was the rain
much of a problem? What about tourist 'load'? Somebody said, "Don't go in
August--it's too hot!" but, really, I am used to Texas heat and riding in
the heat. Once, I had a soccer game when it was 105. It was tough, but I'm
still alive, if you know what I mean. I plan to go on the north west coast
around Ennis in county Clare. I want to find where my ancestors lived before
they got on the boat in Ennistymon in 1842.

Any hints you could give would be appreciated.
Pat in TX
:

Matt O'Toole wrote:
I agree about soft luggage in general. It can absorb shock very well too --
I've had great luck with canvas camera and computer bags.

Which bag do you have, exactly?

I use the S&S Machine backpack case, i.e.

http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_back.htm

I also have one of their hard cases.

I believe that the hard case provides better protection for the bike
against exteme mishandling, particularly with the compression members
added, but a couple of issues with it are problems for me. The hard
case creates some fairly tight constraints on the size of the bike. I
have (and like) my steerer tube cut a bit long, which means I have to
forceably wedge the front fork into the case to get it to fit at all.
In addition, when I've taken the bike somewhere the need find storage
for the hard case and return later to pick it up is sometimes annoying.
With the backpack case I have the option of folding it up and bungee
cording it to the bike rack if I want to.

I hence almost exclusively use the backpack case for travel now. I've
had no trouble with damage to the bike since I began taking great care
to get the wheels well supported and padded to avoid having them bent
in transit.

I'm trying to find out everything I can, because I'll probably invest in one of
these bikes in the near future. Not only would flying with my bike be easier,
but putting it in *any* car as well.

My favourite thing about the S&S bike is that I can carry it places that
normally wouldn't take a bicycle. I spend time in Hong Kong, and when
riding in the traffic there begins to bug me I'll sometimes take the bike
into mainland China for a long weekend credit card tour. The trouble with
doing this with a normal bike is that neither the mainland buses nor
(as far as I've been able to tell) the China ferries leaving Hong Kong
seem to be willing to carry a bicycle, bicycles have recently been banned
from Hong Kong trains and even a taxi ride to the ferry terminal can
be trouble if you have to persuade the driver to let you jam a full
size bike into the trunk. When all you're carrying is a big suitcase,
however, none of this is a problem.

Dennis Ferguson

Pat wrote:
: Pat wrote:
: :
: I would like to hear more about your Ireland trip. I am thinking
of
: going
: there sometime this summer.
:
: What would you like to know?

First of all, I probably would not be taking a bike. Did you notice
any
places to rent bikes?

We took our own bikes (three of us) and never looked for, nor noticed,
any rental places. But about two years ago my daughter went back for a
week on her own. She traveled mostly by bus and hitchhiking, but she
did rent a bike for a couple days. It wasn't much good. The bikes
were in terrible shape; the first wasn't shifting gears, and the only
alternative didn't fit her well.

I'm sure decent rental places exist, but I don't know about them.

Did you stay at Bed and Breakfast places, and, if so,
what is an acceptable price range.

We were there in '92, and with my memory, I can't begin to tell you
prices, except: At the time we were there, _everything_ was expensive.
Seriously, we were kind of shocked at how much plain food was costing!
I think it had something to do with the exchange rate. I just
resolved to spend what I needed to and worry about my bank account
later.


The last time I was in Ireland was in
1986, and I bet the prices have gone up a bit since then, when it was
approx. 1 pound per person per night. What month did you go? Was the
rain
much of a problem?

:-) We went in August. On the flight over, I sat next to a nice young
Irish lawyer. She said "Well, we've had a lovely summer, but it's over
now. I hope you brought rain gear!" Was she ever right!

Seriously, I never saw so much rain. It was a meteorological quirk -
we'd look at the weather report every night, and the weatherman would
be saying "This low pressure system is _still_ in place in the
Atlantic, so I'm afraid even more rain is on the way." There was so
much rain the Irish were complaining about it. We had very few dry
days in three weeks!


What about tourist 'load'? Somebody said, "Don't go in
August--it's too hot!" but, really, I am used to Texas heat and
riding in
the heat.

??? I seriously doubt you'll get hot! Almost all of our trip was cool
and cloudy. IIRC, typical temperatures were in the 50s and 60s
Fahrenheit.

I plan to go on the north west coast
around Ennis in county Clare. I want to find where my ancestors lived
before
they got on the boat in Ennistymon in 1842.

Any hints you could give would be appreciated.

The biggest hint is to contact the Irish Tourist Board. They were very
helpful with free information, including bicycle maps covering the
entire country. Tell them what you're interested in, and they'll send
you related brochures.

We read up on Ireland for quite a few months ahead of time, and kept a
map of Ireland posted on the living room wall. Each family member was
charged with sticking little bits of Post-It notes on spots where there
was "interesting stuff." Then, maybe a month before departure, we
figured out which spots we could string into a bike tour. This worked
quite well.

We landed in Dublin, spent a couple days there, then took trains to
Killarney. From there, we biked out the Dingle Peninsula, then up the
west coast almost to Galway, then east to Dublin. (We were sorry to
miss Galway.)

We had no problems with tourist overcrowding, except in Dingle. We'd
often use the Tourist Info center in each town to locate B&Bs, but when
we biked in to Dingle, we arrived late. The line was way, way out the
door, and they were telling tourists who'd arrived by Mercedes "I'm
sorry, but we have nothing within fifteen miles." Luckily, as my wife
and _very_ tired daughter held a place in the long line, I biked out to
just look around town, and found a brand new "off-list" B&B just a few
blocks away! (Apparently, to get listed with the Tourist Board, a B&B
has to meet rather expensive standards; some just don't bother.)

We never had reservations, we just took it a day at a time. There was
only one other time we had trouble finding accommodation, and that was
on the ride back across the island to Dublin. The West is all set for
tourists, but central Ireland has few tourists, so few B&Bs. Still, we
always came up with some place to get out of the weather.

Also, we had the Irish Tourist Board maps, plus a paperback we'd bought
in Dublin recommending bike routes, but we mostly made our own way
following the Michelin map. This worked fine - but take a compass.
The roads are tiny and winding. Someone once wrote that Ireland has
more miles of road per registered vehicle than any other country.
Don't know if that's true, but we had no problem with traffic.

Other tips? The roads were free of big bumps, but full of little ones,
as well as rough-textured pavement. Our touring bikes had 32 mm tires.
If I had it to do again, I'd go one size wider.

Do _not_ go without fenders! In fact, in Killarney, horse-drawn carts
are a tourist treat. When there's horse exhaust mixed into the rain
puddles, you _really_ want fenders! ;-)

I'm a huge fan of Irish traditional music. If you're in Clare, you
_must_ hit the pubs in Doolin (which are all there is in Doolin). It's
famous for its music. In fact, if I were able, I'd be sure to hit the
Willie Clancy Weekend, a great music festival in Ennis, Co. Clare in
early July. We have friends who tell us it's absolutely wonderful.
Also, Matt Malloy's Pub in Westport, and the Frankie Kennedy School up
in Donegal, around Chrismas time.

There's nothing better than a slowly pulled pint of Guinness, with
pipes and fiddle in the background!


Ah! You'll want to read _Ireland, A Bicycle, and a Tin Whistle_ by
David A. Wilson, ISBN 0-7735-1344-2 McGill-Queen's University Press.

I think we should discuss a more important aspect of this in whether
it is:

Bringing a bike on a plane.

or:

Taking a bike on a plane.

wrote: (clip) Bringing (clip) or (clip)
taking (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Very important point--I knew something was bothering me, but I couldn't put
my finger on it. If you are departing, you say to the person at your
destination: "I am bringing a bike on the plane." You say to the person
who drove you to the airport, "I am taking a bike on the plane." This has
been thoroughly discussed by Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, on Car
Talk.

Thanks for bringing this up. I have now taken the matter up.

David L. Johnson wrote:




There are more problems. It is very likely you will be charged $50-$75 --
each way -- to ship the bike.

A lot depends on the individual airline -- each has its own baggage
rules. However, as a general trend, they're getting more strict on
baggage limits, especially weight. 70 pounds used to be the limit, and
now most are charging for overweight at 50.

Last month, I was traveling with a couple of computer servers, and
Southwest told me that they were lowering their limit from 70 to 50
beginning April 1.

I know that it's annoyance to get hit charges for bicycles -- they're
not weight, but they are oversized. This is the major reason that golf
clubs don't get tagged for extra -- not that the airlines are singling
out cyclists and not golfers, but that club bags don't generally exceed
size limits (which are often measured as a total of L + W + H) and a
certain number, e.g., 62 inches.

The other things the airlines will often do is make you sign a release
that they're off the hook if anything gets broken. If you're traveling
with something that's really fragile, such as a musical instrument,
they'll generally make you sign the release unless you have a
well-padded hardshell Anvil case.

The box may attract attention because of
the metal bits, so you may have security problems.

When I was traveling with my servers, both boxes got opened by the TSA,
and came out of baggage claim with lots of TSA tape all over them....

Better ideas:

1) Rent. Not real easy to find in Las Vegas, but possible.
2) Buy a junker there. More likely findable, less reliable and no on to
complain to if it falls apart half-way to your convention.
3) Buy a folding bike before you go. Those usually go as luggage, and
some are sold with a box. Do this if you want to travel with a bike
often. Money is obviously the limitation with this option.

Another possibility is shipping separately as freight -- my brother did
this several years ago when he flew to visit me. He's a bike shop owner
and has plenty of shipping boxes. He simply packed in a shipping box,
and then sent his bike via UPS. When he went home, I simply dropped the
bike off at UPS agent.

If you ship via UPS, I know that UPS Stores have a preference of doing
the packing themselves, especially if you're insuring. When I traveled
with my servers, I ended up shipping one via UPS, and the second one
that I was carrying didn't have the right box. Thus, when I called a
UPS store, they told me that for the one that I was shipping, the best
thing was for me have them pack the box (using the right sized box, and
right type/amount of packing materials), and I ended up having them pack
the server I was carrying that didn't have have a correct box.

On this one, for a bike, I would take a box from a LBS, and then work
with a UPS store to make sure that the box is correctly packed. Of
course, a LBS has seen enough bikes that they can help you, too.

Smith

"NFN Smith" wrote: (clip) I know that UPS Stores have a preference of doing
the packing themselves, especially if you're insuring.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I used to work for a company that shipped large numbers of packages by UPS.
Whenever there was damage, their automatic reaction was: "It's not our
fault. The packaging was inadequate." We usually won the argument, but had
to fight them over each one.

If you have them do the packaging you will be in a better position if the
bike gets bent.