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frame for pursuit and TT, tri?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 11th 11, 10:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
mtb Dad
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Posts: 210
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.
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  #2  
Old January 11th 11, 10:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Hank
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Posts: 887
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

On Jan 11, 1:09*pm, mtb Dad wrote:
Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? *I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. *Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


Miche BBs have lipless cups, like Phils do, at 1/5th of the cost.
They're ISO-taper, so you'd need to use Campy cranks with them, but
they're not much pricier on ebay than the Suginos that the hipsters
like.
  #3  
Old January 12th 11, 06:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike Jacoubowsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,972
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?


"mtb Dad" wrote in message
...
Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


That's a *lot* of work, converting a bike back & forth like that. But if
you really wanted to do it, you just buy a track bike and have a
derailleur hanger brazed onto the dropout. Not difficult to do at all.
The chainline is a non-issue; moving the chainring from inside to
outside will move your chainline quite a bit. You're going to have
another issue though; track bikes, pursuit and otherwise, are 120mm wide
at the rear. Road bikes are 130mm. You could change out the axle in the
track wheel and re-space it to 130mm, and re-space the the rear end, but
10mm is a *lot* with a modern, stiff rear triangle.

I'm thinking it makes more sense to pick up a used track bike for
pursuit, and adapt a conventional road bike for TT work. The pursuit and
TT bikes have less in common than you may have thought.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


  #4  
Old January 13th 11, 12:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,322
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

On Jan 11, 3:09*pm, mtb Dad wrote:
Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? *I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. *Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


White UNO bolt-on rear hub for pursuit, in a road frame, 130mm OLD.
3/32" chain OK for TT and pursuit. I don't know if people are using
master links for track chains (my track career having ended before
snap links, by whatever name, came into near-universal use); you might
want one chain with link for TT, one for track that is riveted
together. At Alkek, in the past, they would let you tape up front QR
levers and run QR's on the track. Or use an Allen bolt "QR adapter" as
a replacement for the skewer on the front. Two sets of handlebars, as
appropriate, you can save a lot of fiddle time there.

Maybe two cranks; I've run road FG bikes with bad chainlines but never
ever on the track, thank you very much, and you're going to want two
cranks anyhow, or some kind of chain keeper for a single chainring
setup. C Record Campy uses a 111mm BB axle for pista and road cranks
which, in the cartridge form, can be fudged a little, l-r, to get the
track bike chainline nailed. Road would probably be correct or plenty
close enough.

Usually there's lots of CRec stuff on ebay, sometimes very reasonable
and those CRec road cranks are occasionally available out to 180mm if
you favor long length for TT.

I didn't find an inescapable fatal flaw yet.

I have seen a tri-bike with track forks on the rear (not dropouts, for
the persnickety) with derailleur hanger welded on and that might be an
approach, since geometry-- forward seating position, mainly-- might be
good. I don't know what the head tube angle or BB height was on that
bike but those are less important on a pursuit bike compared to a
sprinter or mass-start bike. I believe that was a Litespeed, might be
a little pricey but then some of the Tri Litespeeds I've seen sold at
reasonable prices, I guess they went out of fashion (?).
--D-y
  #5  
Old January 17th 11, 07:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Phil H
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Posts: 391
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

On Jan 12, 10:54*am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
"mtb Dad" wrote in message

...

Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? *I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. *Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


That's a *lot* of work, converting a bike back & forth like that. But if
you really wanted to do it, you just buy a track bike and have a
derailleur hanger brazed onto the dropout. Not difficult to do at all.
The chainline is a non-issue; moving the chainring from inside to
outside will move your chainline quite a bit. You're going to have
another issue though; track bikes, pursuit and otherwise, are 120mm wide
at the rear. Road bikes are 130mm. You could change out the axle in the
track wheel and re-space it to 130mm, and re-space the the rear end, but
10mm is a *lot* with a modern, stiff rear triangle.

I'm thinking it makes more sense to pick up a used track bike for
pursuit, and adapt a conventional road bike for TT work. The pursuit and
TT bikes have less in common than you may have thought.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I thought about keeping 120 spacing and using a 5speed freewheel for
TT mode. I have a disc wheel where I could do that but my pursuit
frame doesn't have a suitable rear brake attachment.
Phil H
  #6  
Old January 17th 11, 07:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

On Jan 17, 10:18 am, Phil H wrote:
On Jan 12, 10:54 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:



"mtb Dad" wrote in message


...


Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


That's a *lot* of work, converting a bike back & forth like that. But if
you really wanted to do it, you just buy a track bike and have a
derailleur hanger brazed onto the dropout. Not difficult to do at all.
The chainline is a non-issue; moving the chainring from inside to
outside will move your chainline quite a bit. You're going to have
another issue though; track bikes, pursuit and otherwise, are 120mm wide
at the rear. Road bikes are 130mm. You could change out the axle in the
track wheel and re-space it to 130mm, and re-space the the rear end, but
10mm is a *lot* with a modern, stiff rear triangle.


I'm thinking it makes more sense to pick up a used track bike for
pursuit, and adapt a conventional road bike for TT work. The pursuit and
TT bikes have less in common than you may have thought.


--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I thought about keeping 120 spacing and using a 5speed freewheel for
TT mode. I have a disc wheel where I could do that but my pursuit
frame doesn't have a suitable rear brake attachment.


Excuse my ignorance WRT time-trial (?) an pursuit racing, but what's
the rear brake for?


  #7  
Old January 17th 11, 07:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

Dan O wrote:
On Jan 17, 10:18 am, Phil H wrote:
On Jan 12, 10:54 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:



"mtb Dad" wrote in message
...
Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.
That's a *lot* of work, converting a bike back & forth like that. But if
you really wanted to do it, you just buy a track bike and have a
derailleur hanger brazed onto the dropout. Not difficult to do at all.
The chainline is a non-issue; moving the chainring from inside to
outside will move your chainline quite a bit. You're going to have
another issue though; track bikes, pursuit and otherwise, are 120mm wide
at the rear. Road bikes are 130mm. You could change out the axle in the
track wheel and re-space it to 130mm, and re-space the the rear end, but
10mm is a *lot* with a modern, stiff rear triangle.
I'm thinking it makes more sense to pick up a used track bike for
pursuit, and adapt a conventional road bike for TT work. The pursuit and
TT bikes have less in common than you may have thought.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I thought about keeping 120 spacing and using a 5speed freewheel for
TT mode. I have a disc wheel where I could do that but my pursuit
frame doesn't have a suitable rear brake attachment.


Excuse my ignorance WRT time-trial (?) an pursuit racing, but what's
the rear brake for?



among the aspects which kept me from this thread.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #8  
Old January 17th 11, 07:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

On Jan 17, 12:34*pm, Dan O wrote:
On Jan 17, 10:18 am, Phil H wrote:





On Jan 12, 10:54 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:


"mtb Dad" wrote in message


....


Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? *I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. *Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


That's a *lot* of work, converting a bike back & forth like that. But if
you really wanted to do it, you just buy a track bike and have a
derailleur hanger brazed onto the dropout. Not difficult to do at all..
The chainline is a non-issue; moving the chainring from inside to
outside will move your chainline quite a bit. You're going to have
another issue though; track bikes, pursuit and otherwise, are 120mm wide
at the rear. Road bikes are 130mm. You could change out the axle in the
track wheel and re-space it to 130mm, and re-space the the rear end, but
10mm is a *lot* with a modern, stiff rear triangle.


I'm thinking it makes more sense to pick up a used track bike for
pursuit, and adapt a conventional road bike for TT work. The pursuit and
TT bikes have less in common than you may have thought.


--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I thought about keeping 120 spacing and using a 5speed freewheel for
TT mode. I have a disc wheel where I could do that but my pursuit
frame doesn't have a suitable rear brake attachment.


Excuse my ignorance WRT time-trial (?) an pursuit racing, but what's
the rear brake for?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


In the USA all sanctioned races (non-track) require two brakes. Don't
know how meticulous the officials are about checking equipment. But
technically you have to have two working brakes.
  #9  
Old January 18th 11, 07:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
una farrar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

Zipp wrote back and says conversion kits only come in 120 mm only for
track.

But, found this option for converting (some) shimano hubs to fixed,
assuming the disc I find has shimano guts (do they make any?).
http://surlybikes.com/parts/fixxer/ It also mentions different
spacings, so I'm thinking I could set it up to match the chain line of
the outer chain ring, and avoid having to mess with cranks and bb's.
"Most converted hubs can be spaced 120, 126, 130 or 135mm."

Can't quite grasp the math of chain line tho; does the diagram here
http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/Fixxer.pdf, suggest I could
get a big ring chain line and have the rim properly centered on the
locknuts?

If that worked, the conversion steps might be, remove the chain,
derailleurs, brakes, cables and bars, the axle and freehub of the rear
hub, bottle cages.

Add track aero bars, add fixxer axle, add a shorter chain. For aero-
geek points, tape the cable ports. Maybe take off the inner ring and
use track chain ring bolts.

Assumes the cranks ok the same length, tt/tri bb height is ok on the
track.

Any other flaws in my thinking?
  #10  
Old January 18th 11, 07:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default frame for pursuit and TT, tri?

On Jan 17, 6:18*pm, Phil H wrote:
On Jan 12, 10:54*am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:



"mtb Dad" wrote in message


....


Anyone heard of an all purpose frame that can be used for both TT and
pursuit? *I guess it would have track dropouts with a derailleur
hanger, and an adjustbale bb (Phil?) to get track and road chain
lines. *Seems like a better investment for the occasional competitor,
and for loaning out to juniors, rather than specialty bikes for each.


That's a *lot* of work, converting a bike back & forth like that. But if
you really wanted to do it, you just buy a track bike and have a
derailleur hanger brazed onto the dropout. Not difficult to do at all.
The chainline is a non-issue; moving the chainring from inside to
outside will move your chainline quite a bit. You're going to have
another issue though; track bikes, pursuit and otherwise, are 120mm wide
at the rear. Road bikes are 130mm. You could change out the axle in the
track wheel and re-space it to 130mm, and re-space the the rear end, but
10mm is a *lot* with a modern, stiff rear triangle.


I'm thinking it makes more sense to pick up a used track bike for
pursuit, and adapt a conventional road bike for TT work. The pursuit and
TT bikes have less in common than you may have thought.


--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I thought about keeping 120 spacing and using a 5speed freewheel for
TT mode. I have a disc wheel where I could do that but my pursuit
frame doesn't have a suitable rear brake attachment.
Phil H


It was the normal way of doing things. Long road ends with the hanger
bracket seperate.
 




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