Tips on carbon fiber WSD bikes?

On Jan 1, 12:43*pm, "Jean" wrote:
I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model. My
criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding, smooth
riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably a triple crank.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following bikes:
Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced 2), Trek
(Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was hoping y'all might
have some insights into these bikes so that I could minimize driving all
over the state (there are no local dealers for most of these brands) to do
the final fit check-out and test ride.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any of these
bikes stand out as more smooth riding? *Do any of these bikes stand out as
more comfy for all day long cruising? Does anyone have any idea how the
weights compare for the same size bike?

Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

Jean

Jean, This has probably been said. I didn't read all the messages. The
difference in the bikes that you are comparing will have to do more
than anything with fit and how a particular model fits you. I will
find a few bike shops that are good and treat you well. They should
measure you thoroughly and let you ride the bikes for a while.
Cannondale, Trek and Specialized all have bike testing days often and
they allow you to take bikes out for an entire day. If you don't have
a good bike job, and you are near northern california, make your way
to chainrectionbikes. Mike Jacoubowsky, the owner and contributor here
is an awesome guy and I am sure will make you happy. If near
Wisconsin, go to the Yellow Jersey (Andrew) or Veccio's in Colorado.
The small investment in finding a really good bike shop will be worth
it.

On 1/4/2011 5:29 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Duane wrote:

On 1/3/2011 3:45 PM, Chalo wrote:
Duane Hébert wrote:

Jay Beattie wrote:

In contrast, I can buy a box of 525 tubing and braze it up in adult ed
metal shop -- and since I am not like you and do not work in a shop,
that is where I go to fix my steel frames.

Jay, are you replying to me or to Chalo? I suspect that he works in a
shop but I'm certain that I don'tg

Hey, maybe you should consider it! "Vélocipèdes Artisanales par
Maître Douain Hébert." Sounds expensive.

LOL. But I'm afraid that if it doesn't start with

int main() {

I'm going to be lost.

I am positive you meant to write int main(void) {


You must have learned C?
In C++ the void is not required and not usually used. I don't think
that it causes a diagnostic on any compiler either way though. Unlike
void main(){} g

On Jan 3, 9:51*pm, James wrote:
T m Sherm n _ wrote:









On 1/3/2011 10:13 PM, James StewarD wrote:
T m Sherm n _ wrote:
On 1/3/2011 9:48 PM, James StewarD wrote:
T m Sherm n _ wrote:
On 1/3/2011 8:17 PM, James StewarD wrote:
T m Sherm n _ wrote:
On 1/3/2011 11:54 AM, Chalo Colina wrote:
That isn't just an assumption; it is observable, measurable
fact. If
you think there is any other factor besides bike fit that has as
big
an effect on ride comfort as tire size and pressure, you are simply
mistaken.[...]

Er, suspension?

Do those Brooks saddles with the large coil springs count as
suspension
or a comfy chair?

JS.

This is a cycling comfy chair:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1939606083/in/set-721576192....

On your home planet maybe.

JS.

Where have bicycle saddles been used except for bicycles?

http://www.thefind.com/office/info-bike-seat-stool

JS.

None of those are narrow enough to function the same way as a typical
road bike saddle.

That is because a typical road bike saddle is designed to support only a
fraction of the total body weight, the rest being supported by the hands
and feet.

However it is more typical of the saddles you might find on what some
describe as "comfort" bikes and gymnasium equipment (ugh).

JS.

What you need is a fast forward desk position. At the edge of your
desk, you'll need some triathlon arm rests. Say, something like this:
http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prod...9-603&k=394967
This would free your arms to type on your puter while practicing your
riding position.

On 1/3/2011 9:38 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/3/2011 12:28 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

CF frames are more prone to mechanical damage -- cut tubes from chain
suck, squirrels in spokes, hitting trees, etc., but I try to avoid
those things. And as far as cost goes, high end steel goes for $2K-
$3K frame alone, which I think is ridiculous, no matter how magical
the Bohemian builder might be. It's f****** metal fab!

Most carbon frames have lifetime warranties these days. What makes me
nervous about the CF bikes are all the warnings about torque.

You should never assume that the length of a warranty is an indicator of
the quality of the product. "Lifetime warranties" on products are for
failures due to manufacturing defects, not failures due to the other
forms of damage that are much more likely to occur on a plastic frame
than on a metal frame.

Understandably, the whole marketing push for carbon fiber bicycles
carefully avoids calling the tubing material by its real name, or
acronym, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, or CFRP. No one wants to use
the P word.

On 1/3/2011 7:46 AM, Steve Freides wrote:

what more does one need?

A car with a slant six engine. A long time ago, someone called into Car
Talk and said that she was told to buy a new car with a slant six
engine. She was told that she was about ten years too late, and was
encouraged to not focus just on the engine, but on the whole car. The
same logic applies to bicycles. People get fixated on carbon fiber
because it's used by racers, without fully understanding why their needs
are different than those of Lance.

On 1/4/2011 9:49 AM, SMS wrote:
On 1/3/2011 9:38 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/3/2011 12:28 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

CF frames are more prone to mechanical damage -- cut tubes from chain
suck, squirrels in spokes, hitting trees, etc., but I try to avoid
those things. And as far as cost goes, high end steel goes for $2K-
$3K frame alone, which I think is ridiculous, no matter how magical
the Bohemian builder might be. It's f****** metal fab!

Most carbon frames have lifetime warranties these days. What makes me
nervous about the CF bikes are all the warnings about torque.

You should never assume that the length of a warranty is an indicator of
the quality of the product. "Lifetime warranties" on products are for
failures due to manufacturing defects, not failures due to the other
forms of damage that are much more likely to occur on a plastic frame
than on a metal frame.

But that's true for any frame. If I run it into a tree I don't expect
it to be covered. Like I said, what bothers me is the torque specs.
Adding a second bottle cage made me nervous as I don't have a torque wrench.


Understandably, the whole marketing push for carbon fiber bicycles
carefully avoids calling the tubing material by its real name, or
acronym, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, or CFRP. No one wants to use
the P word.

Yep. I understand that. I was very uncertain about the CF. I'm a
steel lug guy for a long time. Given the type of riding that I do these
days, the bike that I bought was a good trade-off price wise for me.

On 1/4/2011 7:00 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/4/2011 9:49 AM, SMS wrote:
On 1/3/2011 9:38 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/3/2011 12:28 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

CF frames are more prone to mechanical damage -- cut tubes from chain
suck, squirrels in spokes, hitting trees, etc., but I try to avoid
those things. And as far as cost goes, high end steel goes for $2K-
$3K frame alone, which I think is ridiculous, no matter how magical
the Bohemian builder might be. It's f****** metal fab!

Most carbon frames have lifetime warranties these days. What makes me
nervous about the CF bikes are all the warnings about torque.

You should never assume that the length of a warranty is an indicator of
the quality of the product. "Lifetime warranties" on products are for
failures due to manufacturing defects, not failures due to the other
forms of damage that are much more likely to occur on a plastic frame
than on a metal frame.

But that's true for any frame.

The difference is that the CFRP frame is much more likely to suffer
damage that is unrelated to manufacturing defects, as well as being much
more likely to have manufacturing defects in the first place. It's all
about how long you want to keep a bicycle, a few years, or decades.

On 1/4/2011 10:33 AM, SMS wrote:
On 1/4/2011 7:00 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/4/2011 9:49 AM, SMS wrote:
On 1/3/2011 9:38 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/3/2011 12:28 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

CF frames are more prone to mechanical damage -- cut tubes from chain
suck, squirrels in spokes, hitting trees, etc., but I try to avoid
those things. And as far as cost goes, high end steel goes for $2K-
$3K frame alone, which I think is ridiculous, no matter how magical
the Bohemian builder might be. It's f****** metal fab!

Most carbon frames have lifetime warranties these days. What makes me
nervous about the CF bikes are all the warnings about torque.

You should never assume that the length of a warranty is an indicator of
the quality of the product. "Lifetime warranties" on products are for
failures due to manufacturing defects, not failures due to the other
forms of damage that are much more likely to occur on a plastic frame
than on a metal frame.

But that's true for any frame.

The difference is that the CFRP frame is much more likely to suffer
damage that is unrelated to manufacturing defects, as well as being much
more likely to have manufacturing defects in the first place. It's all
about how long you want to keep a bicycle, a few years, or decades

I was having this discussion with the LBS guy. It's not just the frame
but most of the bike is more or less disposable these days. My old 94
Bianchi with the Suntour/Dyacomp setup is still all original parts
excepts for some bearings. I've never even had a broken spoke.
I've changed 1 chain, 1 shift cable and a few sets of brake pads.

I've put about 3k on the new Tarmac this season and it already needs a
new chain and brake pads. I'm hoping that the cassette is still ok.

I'll probably have the Bianchi long after the Tarmac is history. I
initially toyed with the idea of reworking the Bianchi frame to begin
with but the final price would have been nearly the same.

All that said, the Tarmac is more fun to ride. Better handling, light
and pretty comfortable. A lot of that probably has to do with the new
gearing and the shorter frame and not the weight but it's fine with me.
I end up taking that one on my commute instead of the old one that is
probably more appropriate for commuting just because it's more fun to
ride. To me, cycling is about having fun. The exercise, reduced carbon
foot print, saving is gas etc. are just adds.

On Jan 4, 6:57 am, SMS wrote:
On 1/3/2011 7:46 AM, Steve Freides wrote:

what more does one need?

A car with a slant six engine. A long time ago, someone called into Car
Talk and said that she was told to buy a new car with a slant six
engine. She was told that she was about ten years too late, and was
encouraged to not focus just on the engine, but on the whole car. The
same logic applies to bicycles. People get fixated on carbon fiber
because it's used by racers, without fully understanding why their needs
are different than those of Lance.

This thread seems closely related to that "hate to admit I was conned"
thread - on discovering the true joy of bicycling.

On Jan 4, 7:00 am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/4/2011 9:49 AM, SMS wrote:



On 1/3/2011 9:38 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/3/2011 12:28 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

CF frames are more prone to mechanical damage -- cut tubes from chain
suck, squirrels in spokes, hitting trees, etc., but I try to avoid
those things. And as far as cost goes, high end steel goes for $2K-
$3K frame alone, which I think is ridiculous, no matter how magical
the Bohemian builder might be. It's f****** metal fab!

Most carbon frames have lifetime warranties these days. What makes me
nervous about the CF bikes are all the warnings about torque.

You should never assume that the length of a warranty is an indicator of
the quality of the product. "Lifetime warranties" on products are for
failures due to manufacturing defects, not failures due to the other
forms of damage that are much more likely to occur on a plastic frame
than on a metal frame.

But that's true for any frame. If I run it into a tree I don't expect
it to be covered. Like I said, what bothers me is the torque specs.
Adding a second bottle cage made me nervous as I don't have a torque wrench.

Understandably, the whole marketing push for carbon fiber bicycles
carefully avoids calling the tubing material by its real name, or
acronym, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, or CFRP. No one wants to use
the P word.

Yep. I understand that. I was very uncertain about the CF. I'm a
steel lug guy for a long time. Given the type of riding that I do these
days, the bike that I bought was a good trade-off price wise for me.

I'm a lugged steel guy, too - not so much for the inherent virtues,
but because that's what the high-quality second-hand bikes I could
afford happened to be made of.

Actually, of ready-to-ride bikes, I have two lugged steel and two
welded steel. You don't drive out of the Chrysler dealer with a slant-
six anymore, either.