Kinda off topic - Bicycle Insurance is not a Tech question

wrote:



I've a question. I was under the impression that one had to have
automobile insurance in the U.S..

In theory, yes - at least, in the states I'm familiar with. (Driving
rules are set by the states, but there's not much variation.)

But in practice, there's little way you can keep someone out of the
driver's seat. So much so that "Uninsured Motorist" coverage is a
standard choice in auto policies. As I understand it, it's to take care
of your personal problems if the other guy can't be sued.

FWIW, the premiums aren't nearly as high as one's own liability
premiums, so perhaps the "uninsured" problem isn't extreme.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Jan 28, 3:25*pm, AMuzi wrote:
David Scheidt wrote:
Postman Delivers wrote:
:I have some protection with my auto-insurance and some coverage with my
:Renter-insurance, but the real question does a bicycle insurance exist?

:If Bicycl;e insurance exists is the coverage any good/worthwhile?

:Something that provides hospital & property damage if I door an idiot
:that does not pay attention to his surroundings, and it is determined to
:be my fault by a miss informed police investigator (trying to be
olite)...

In most states, renters and home owner's insurance provide protection
against accidental damage to other people's property, if it's not caused
by something specifically excluded; in others, the language of the
policy matters if bicycling is included. *You can also buy an umbrella
liability policy, which would cover excess liability from all your other
insurances, and potentially close gaps. *(And might let you reduce the
liability portion of them, which could be a net savings.) *Talk to your
insurance agent, details matter a whole lot in insurance. *Better, talk
to a couple, including at least one who's an independent agent.

Good advice but moderation in this and all things. Being a
responsible insured with high liability limits, attorneys
will view you as a target. BTDT.


Yes, but in addition to the liability coverage, the insurance provider
will generally also be providing a legal defense if that should be
necessary. The latter may even be more important than the actual
coverage as it may level the playing field if negotiating an
appropriate settlement should become necessary.

DR

Google 11:9

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&h...iw=960&bih=512

Frank Krygowski wrote:
wrote:
:
:
:
: I've a question. I was under the impression that one had to have
: automobile insurance in the U.S..

:In theory, yes - at least, in the states I'm familiar with. (Driving
:rules are set by the states, but there's not much variation.)

A few states didn't require it, as of a few years ago. Don't know if
that's changed.

:But in practice, there's little way you can keep someone out of the
:driver's seat. So much so that "Uninsured Motorist" coverage is a
:standard choice in auto policies. As I understand it, it's to take care
f your personal problems if the other guy can't be sued.

Or found, as in the case of hit and run, or the liability exceeds the
limit of the other guy's coverage. Since the legal mininums are very
low (stupidly low, some places, there were a numer of states were the
third party requirement was just $5k.

:FWIW, the premiums aren't nearly as high as one's own liability
remiums, so perhaps the "uninsured" problem isn't extreme.

It varies widely from state to state. Some places do a better job of
keeping unisured cars off the road than others.


--
sig 110

Google 11:9

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&h...iw=960&bih=512

On Jan 28, 3:32*pm, Chalo wrote:
Postman Delivers wrote:

Thanks, reason for my question, I laid my Grocery getter down this
morning swerving out of the bike lane to avoid a opening door.

The driver of the Jag was furious at me, and would not stop his angry
tirade until a few of his friends man handle him. He was twice my size
and could have snapped my neck with one hand tied behind his back.

Next thing I know a not so polite policeman was lecturing me about riding
with better awareness, not bothering to chat with the departing car
owner. *Maybe he was a politically connected individual. *My arm and leg
will heal, but I have decided I need some financial protection when I am
riding.

You need an aggressive personal injury attorney. *This is not about
_you_ paying for stuff. *Your assailant may be "politically
connected", but his insurer will settle a case such as this to
mitigate costs of further litigation. *And then later they'll jack up
his rates or drop his coverage.

The law is on your side here, even if the ignoramus cop isn't.

It depends on what the law is in his state. His injuries resulted from
crashing before hitting the door. If I understand the story
correctly, Postman swerved before crashing, which enraged the Jag
owner -- who oddly started threatening or lecturing Postman post-
crash. The Jag owner did not hit him and is not subject to criminal
prosecution unless the state has a "menacing" type charge -- some
don't and tie assault to physical harm. You would also have to find a
DA willing to pursue the charge, if there is one.

The Jag owner is not insured against the event -- even assuming it
amounts assault. Auto policies exclude liability for intentional harms
and don't cover non-bodily injury (psychic upset in this case). An
aggressive PI attorney would not take the case against the Jag owner
because there are no injuries -- except for transient fear. Not that
the Jag owner shouldn't get sued; there just isn't much incentive for
an attorney trying to make a buck.

The guy who opened the door may or may not be liable depending on
local law. In Oregon, we have a favorable law:

ORS 811.490 Improper opening or leaving open of vehicle door; penalty.

(1) A person commits the offense of improper opening or leaving open a
vehicle door if the person does any of the following:
(a) Opens any door of a vehicle unless and until it is reasonably safe
to do so and it can be done without interference with the movement of
traffic, or with pedestrians and bicycles on sidewalks or shoulders.
(b) Leaves a door open on the side of a vehicle available to traffic,
or to pedestrians or bicycles on sidewalks or shoulders for a period
of time longer than necessary to load or unload passengers.
(2) The offense described in this section, improper opening or leaving
open a vehicle door, is a Class D traffic infraction. "

That leaves open the question of whether it was "reasonably safe" to
open the door, and it doesn't eliminate the comparative fault issue.
There is no way to predict how even a sympathetic jury would see this
event.

Also, the guy who opened the door is gone -- there is no one to sue.
He would be the target though.

I think Frank is right that door-zone bike lanes are a hazard. I ride
in the door-zone all the time and take my chances. With heavily
tinted windows, it has become more dangerous to tell whether cars are
occupied. In some places (drop off spots, health club, etc.), I just
assume they are and abandon the bike lane. I feel sorry for misled
cyclists who are unfamiliar with the area.

As for insurance, if Postman had hit the door of the car, I doubt he
would have been liable for the damage -- but if he had, it's the sort
of thing covered by his renters insurance. Those policies exclude
liability arising out of the use/ownership/maintenance/loading/
unloading of motor vehicles, golf-carts, lawnmowers, etc., etc., but
typically not bikes. Running in to a car is not "using" a car -- so I
don't see any reason why liability would be excluded.

Postman's own PIP coverage (assuming he has an auto policy) may cover
his medical bills, or the PIP coverage of the door-swinging car
owner. Many PIP statutes define bicyclists as pedestrians, and the
car owner's PIP is primary.

-- Jay Beattie.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
wrote:



I've a question. I was under the impression that one had to have
automobile insurance in the U.S..

In theory, yes - at least, in the states I'm familiar with. (Driving
rules are set by the states, but there's not much variation.)

But in practice, there's little way you can keep someone out of the
driver's seat. So much so that "Uninsured Motorist" coverage is a
standard choice in auto policies. As I understand it, it's to take care
of your personal problems if the other guy can't be sued.

FWIW, the premiums aren't nearly as high as one's own liability
premiums, so perhaps the "uninsured" problem isn't extreme.


It's still, at minimum, much more expensive than a
no-insurance ticket so I'll still pass, thanks.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

how does this happen ? with the drunks and kids esp Madison ?
open roads, hill and dale, rum and coke.....

I giess there's a list somewhere.....

well, there's always capital gains....





www.autoinsurance.net/Wisconsin_Car_Insurance


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On 1/28/2012 2:49 PM, Postman Delivers wrote:
I have some protection with my auto-insurance and some coverage with my
Renter-insurance, but the real question does a bicycle insurance exist?

If Bicycl;e insurance exists is the coverage any good/worthwhile?

Something that provides hospital& property damage if I door an idiot
that does not pay attention to his surroundings, and it is determined to
be my fault by a miss informed police investigator (trying to be
polite)...

I can't say for the states as I'm in Montreal but here, home owner's
insurance only covers the bike if it's damaged or stolen. We have
no-fault insurance with a mandatory liability paid with our license
plate renewal and that would cover you as a driver in an incident with a
cyclist.

For insuring a cyclist, you have to purchase it. Our club is having
problems with that at the moment though it's mostly about insuring
riders in the open to the public time trials.

For personal cycling insurance, you can find cycling organizations that
supply some. Velo-Quebec membership comes with insurance that covers
your bike and some medical. It payed most of the physio that I needed
after my last crash. But my medical at work would have covered that anyway.