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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. Sometimes they like us there to keep the meth heads and dumping out, but it is a "don't ask, don't tell" type thing. Should we ignore gray trails, encourage their use, try to shut them down, support their maintenance? We want to know what you think. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#2
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. Sometimes they like us there to keep the meth heads and dumping out, but it is a "don't ask, don't tell" type thing. Should we ignore gray trails, encourage their use, try to shut them down, support their maintenance? We want to know what you think. This is easy. The land owners have a problem, the bike riders keep the problem to a minimum level, or eliminate it altogether. Don't ask, don't tell. The land owner might turn around tomorrow and decide that crack heads are a better choice for whatever reason. No matter what policy is devised now, the land owner has the final say -- assuming we are discussing private property. Bottom line, you should not be there, but if nobody is objecting, take care to not get hurt and then turn around and sue somebody. |
#4
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:
In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#5
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
On May 24, 9:31 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote: In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande What don't you understand about "informally allows". That's not trespassing. You spin faster than any politician. A gray trail is one the land owners knows about and approves of, but just doesn't want the riders to tell the world about it. The riders thank the owner by keeping the trails in shape, land garbage free and keeps the non desirables out. |
#6
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
On 24 May 2007 09:57:04 -0700, SGK wrote:
On May 24, 9:31 am, Mike Vandeman wrote: On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote: In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande What don't you understand about "informally allows". That's not trespassing. You spin faster than any politician. A gray trail is one the land owners knows about and approves of, but just doesn't want the riders to tell the world about it. You completely missed the point: the mountain bikers CLAIM that they have approval, but there is no proof, and none was presented. More likely, they have just done it without asking (as usual), and have not been caught yet. Why should they be any different from other mountain bikers, a huge number of whom simply do what they want, and claim ignorance later (they ARE ignorant, but not in that way; they are ignorant of their environmental impact). The riders thank the owner by keeping the trails in shape, land garbage free and keeps the non desirables out. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#7
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message news On 24 May 2007 09:57:04 -0700, SGK wrote: On May 24, 9:31 am, Mike Vandeman wrote: On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote: In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande What don't you understand about "informally allows". That's not trespassing. You spin faster than any politician. A gray trail is one the land owners knows about and approves of, but just doesn't want the riders to tell the world about it. You completely missed the point: the mountain bikers CLAIM that they have approval, but there is no proof, and none was presented. And, there's no proof they did not have permission, implicit or explicit, and you haven't presented any. More likely, they have just done it without asking (as usual), and have not been caught yet. Why should they be any different from other mountain bikers, a huge number of whom simply do what they want, and claim ignorance later (they ARE ignorant, but not in that way; they are ignorant of their environmental impact). Just because you do not accept at face value the claim that the land owner doesn't mind does not make the approval less. You do not know if any permission was asked for or not, and since it is reported that the activity is allowed, we must surmise that permission was asked for, and granted. |
#8
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
In article ,
says... On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote: In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. Which has exactly what to do with trails that the landowner has specifically allowed, though not in writing? Or did you not bother reading what you posted: "A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land" -- is Joshua Putnam http://www.phred.org/~josh/ Updated Infrared Photography Gallery: http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html |
#9
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
On Thu, 24 May 2007 10:07:31 -0700, wrote:
In article , says... On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote: In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. Which has exactly what to do with trails that the landowner has specifically allowed, though not in writing? Or did you not bother reading what you posted: "A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land" Read between the lines. What exactly does "informally" mean? It just means that they haven't been caught yet, while destroying the land. They never claimed to have any evidence of the alleged "permission". -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#10
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Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 May 2007 10:07:31 -0700, wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote: In article , says... From: "Jon Kennedy" Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000 Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation -- Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out. At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there is no formal written policy. So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property? No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave it to a mountain biker not to know that. Which has exactly what to do with trails that the landowner has specifically allowed, though not in writing? Or did you not bother reading what you posted: "A gray trail is one where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land" Read between the lines. What exactly does "informally" mean? It just means that they haven't been caught yet, while destroying the land. They never claimed to have any evidence of the alleged "permission". Why don't YOU read between the lines? You have no clue whether or not the land owner said, "sure, ride on my land because you guys chase the drugg adicts away." There is a chance that bike riding is less traumatic than the drug parties, therefore the land owner is okay with the rider's presence. I don't know that either, but I'm not making charges that people are doing illegal stuff. |
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