A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Social Issues
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 24th 07, 02:32 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"

From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --

Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.

At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy. Sometimes they like us there to keep the
meth heads and dumping out, but it is a "don't ask, don't tell" type
thing. Should we ignore gray trails, encourage their use, try to shut
them down, support their maintenance? We want to know what you think.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #2  
Old May 24th 07, 02:40 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --

Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.

At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy. Sometimes they like us there to keep the
meth heads and dumping out, but it is a "don't ask, don't tell" type
thing. Should we ignore gray trails, encourage their use, try to shut
them down, support their maintenance? We want to know what you think.



This is easy. The land owners have a problem, the bike riders keep the
problem to a minimum level, or eliminate it altogether. Don't ask, don't
tell.

The land owner might turn around tomorrow and decide that crack heads are a
better choice for whatever reason. No matter what policy is devised now, the
land owner has the final say -- assuming we are discussing private property.

Bottom line, you should not be there, but if nobody is objecting, take care
to not get hurt and then turn around and sue somebody.








  #4  
Old May 24th 07, 05:31 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"

On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:

In article ,
says...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --

Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.

At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy.


So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property?


No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave
it to a mountain biker not to know that.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #5  
Old May 24th 07, 05:57 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
SGK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"

On May 24, 9:31 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:
In article ,
says...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --


Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.


At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy.


So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property?


No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave
it to a mountain biker not to know that.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


What don't you understand about "informally allows". That's not
trespassing. You spin faster than any politician.
A gray trail is one the land owners knows about and approves of, but
just doesn't want the riders to tell the world about it. The riders
thank the owner by keeping the trails in shape, land garbage free and
keeps the non desirables out.

  #6  
Old May 25th 07, 02:09 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"

On 24 May 2007 09:57:04 -0700, SGK wrote:

On May 24, 9:31 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:
In article ,
says...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --


Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.


At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy.


So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property?


No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave
it to a mountain biker not to know that.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


What don't you understand about "informally allows". That's not
trespassing. You spin faster than any politician.
A gray trail is one the land owners knows about and approves of, but
just doesn't want the riders to tell the world about it.


You completely missed the point: the mountain bikers CLAIM that they
have approval, but there is no proof, and none was presented. More
likely, they have just done it without asking (as usual), and have not
been caught yet. Why should they be any different from other mountain
bikers, a huge number of whom simply do what they want, and claim
ignorance later (they ARE ignorant, but not in that way; they are
ignorant of their environmental impact).

The riders
thank the owner by keeping the trails in shape, land garbage free and
keeps the non desirables out.

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #7  
Old May 25th 07, 02:21 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
news
On 24 May 2007 09:57:04 -0700, SGK wrote:

On May 24, 9:31 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:
In article ,
says...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --

Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.

At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy.

So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property?

No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave
it to a mountain biker not to know that.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


What don't you understand about "informally allows". That's not
trespassing. You spin faster than any politician.
A gray trail is one the land owners knows about and approves of, but
just doesn't want the riders to tell the world about it.


You completely missed the point: the mountain bikers CLAIM that they
have approval, but there is no proof, and none was presented.



And, there's no proof they did not have permission, implicit or explicit,
and you haven't presented any.




More
likely, they have just done it without asking (as usual), and have not
been caught yet. Why should they be any different from other mountain
bikers, a huge number of whom simply do what they want, and claim
ignorance later (they ARE ignorant, but not in that way; they are
ignorant of their environmental impact).


Just because you do not accept at face value the claim that the land owner
doesn't mind does not make the approval less. You do not know if any
permission was asked for or not, and since it is reported that the activity
is allowed, we must surmise that permission was asked for, and granted.





  #9  
Old May 25th 07, 02:11 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"

On Thu, 24 May 2007 10:07:31 -0700, wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:

In article ,
says...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --

Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.

At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy.

So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property?


No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave
it to a mountain biker not to know that.


Which has exactly what to do with trails that the landowner has
specifically allowed, though not in writing?

Or did you not bother reading what you posted: "A gray trail is one
where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use
trails on their land"


Read between the lines. What exactly does "informally" mean? It just
means that they haven't been caught yet, while destroying the land.
They never claimed to have any evidence of the alleged "permission".
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #10  
Old May 25th 07, 02:24 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails"


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 May 2007 10:07:31 -0700, wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 23 May 2007 19:48:04 -0700, wrote:

In article ,
says...
From: "Jon Kennedy"
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:24 -0000
Subject: Staff Night Out (5/30) -- Gray Area Conversation --

Come join Justin and Jon next Wednesday at the Redhook Brewery in
Woodinville for the fourth BBTC Staff Night Out.

At this pub night we want your feedback on what our policy on gray
trails should be. A gray trail is one where the land owner informally
allows us to maintain, build or use trails on their land, but there
is no formal written policy.

So it's illegal now for land owners to allow trails on their property?

No, it's illegal to trespass and damage private property. DUH! Leave
it to a mountain biker not to know that.


Which has exactly what to do with trails that the landowner has
specifically allowed, though not in writing?

Or did you not bother reading what you posted: "A gray trail is one
where the land owner informally allows us to maintain, build or use
trails on their land"


Read between the lines. What exactly does "informally" mean? It just
means that they haven't been caught yet, while destroying the land.
They never claimed to have any evidence of the alleged "permission".




Why don't YOU read between the lines?

You have no clue whether or not the land owner said, "sure, ride on my land
because you guys chase the drugg adicts away." There is a chance that bike
riding is less traumatic than the drug parties, therefore the land owner is
okay with the rider's presence.

I don't know that either, but I'm not making charges that people are doing
illegal stuff.




 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Euphemism for Illegal Mountain Bike Trails: "Gray Trails" Mike Vandeman Mountain Biking 88 June 10th 07 10:48 PM
VIC: Lysterfield Park "No Bikes" Trails snozza[_2_] Australia 0 February 27th 07 02:26 AM
"A Comparative Study of Impacts to Mountain Bike Trails in Five Common Ecological Regions of the Southwestern U.S." Mike Vandeman Mountain Biking 52 September 1st 06 05:21 PM
"A Comparative Study of Impacts to Mountain Bike Trails in Five Common Ecological Regions of the Southwestern U.S." Mike Vandeman Social Issues 31 September 1st 06 05:21 PM
24" trails trials_uni Unicycling 0 April 2nd 06 03:37 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.