How many miles/kilometres do you get out of a chain?

On 15/05/13 07:13, davethedave wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 10:47:55 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

especially considering my chain runs inside a completely enclosing case

(Hebie Chainglider). If I use an open chain, a good one lasts 2200km
and a

cheap SRAM is lucky to see a thousand miles/1600km.

MTB or road?

Sorry, I should have said, Ernie. Touring bikes, from fast, lightly
loaded to heavily loaded camping tourers; there's one guy who goes into
the desert carrying more water than a camel. The ones with the fabulous
mileages on their chains are all Rohloff hub gear bikes. Maybe the
permanent straight run of the chain has something to do with it.

You may have something there. I'm on a Shimano Alfine 11 speed. The
completely straight chain line thing may improve chain life dramatically.
However I'd take a derailleur system on my next bike. The """maintenance
free""" Alfine is just a constant worry in terms of breakdown. It ****es
oil like there is no tomorrow. In the grand old scheme of things a few
more chains are neither here nor there in cost. Warranty is one thing but
when you have to post the drive train of your primary mode of transport
internationally for repairs and wait for a replacement for about a month
or three (customs are a bitch here) whilst paying for buses and cabs it
all gets a bit much. There is a lot to be said for simplicity and user
serviceability.



The width of the chain makes a huge difference. The bearing surfaces in
a 10s chain compared to a single speed are way smaller, and hence wear
much faster.

--
JS.

On May 14, 5:39*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:13:53 PM UTC+1, davethedave wrote:
However I'd take a derailleur system on my next bike. The """maintenance

free""" Alfine is just a constant worry in terms of breakdown. It ****es

oil like there is no tomorrow. In the grand old scheme of things a few

more chains are neither here nor there in cost. Warranty is one thing but

when you have to post the drive train of your primary mode of transport

internationally for repairs and wait for a replacement for about a month

or three (customs are a bitch here) whilst paying for buses and cabs it

all gets a bit much. There is a lot to be said for simplicity and user

serviceability.

I've met almost no one who, having tried a Rohloff, didn't consider it the number solution to the mainenance problem. Twice a year I don't even get my hands dirty in servicing my entire bike, including the Rohloff. At the Rohloff end, twice a year I undo a thumscrew on the EXT click box, glance at the Phil grease inside, nod my head wisely, and screw it back up. The logic is at *http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGRo...rvice.htmlwith photographs if you're into bike pron and green goo. Once a year I screw in a cattle-type hypodermic and change the oil inside the Rohloff. I also have old-fashioned Philips platform pedals, which I bought NOS on Ebay, which are supposed to be oiled, every month, but I didn't know that so I washed all the ancient grease out of them with a can of sewing machine oil, then forcepacked them with high quality ceramic grease, and now they appear to require no further service. *I also lounge around with a small torque wrench in my hand while my wife brings me drinks, pretending to be a bike mechanic checking every nut and bolt, but of course nothing is ever loose, as my bike was built by Germans.

The handwaving aside, the Rohloff really is the key component on a truly low maintenance bike. In the extremely rare case that it breaks, Rohloff usually gets it back to you, at their expense, within the week. The Hebie Chainglider follows closely in the second spot. I don't even clean or oil my chain, I just run it inside the Chainglider on the factory lube.

Andre Jute-

your wasting a lot of wattage with that internal gear system - I
expect it must get dull having to walk your bike up even moderate
grades all the time

8 days in washington looks interesting.....

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 1:31:40 AM UTC+1, raamman wrote:
On May 14, 5:39*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:13:53 PM UTC+1, davethedave wrote:

However I'd take a derailleur system on my next bike. The """maintenance



free""" Alfine is just a constant worry in terms of breakdown. It ****es



oil like there is no tomorrow. In the grand old scheme of things a few



more chains are neither here nor there in cost. Warranty is one thing but



when you have to post the drive train of your primary mode of transport



internationally for repairs and wait for a replacement for about a month



or three (customs are a bitch here) whilst paying for buses and cabs it



all gets a bit much. There is a lot to be said for simplicity and user



serviceability.



I've met almost no one who, having tried a Rohloff, didn't consider it the number one solution to the mainenance problem. Twice a year I don't even get my hands dirty in servicing my entire bike, including the Rohloff. At the Rohloff end, twice a year I undo a thumscrew on the EXT click box, glance at the Phil grease inside, nod my head wisely, and screw it back up. The logic is at *http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGRo...rvice.htmlwith photographs if you're into bike pron and green goo. Once a year I screw in a cattle-type hypodermic and change the oil inside the Rohloff. I also have old-fashioned Philips platform pedals, which I bought NOS on Ebay, which are supposed to be oiled, every month, but I didn't know that so I washed all the ancient grease out of them with a can of sewing machine oil, then forcepacked them with high quality ceramic grease, and now they appear to require no further service. *I also lounge around with a small torque wrench in my hand while my wife brings me drinks, pretending to be a bike mechanic checking every nut and bolt, but of course nothing is ever loose, as my bike was built by Germans.



The handwaving aside, the Rohloff really is the key component on a truly low maintenance bike. In the extremely rare case that it breaks, Rohloff usually gets it back to you, at their expense, within the week. The Hebie Chainglider follows closely in the second spot. I don't even clean or oil my chain, I just run it inside the Chainglider on the factory lube.



Andre Jute-



your wasting a lot of wattage with that internal gear system - I

expect it must get dull having to walk your bike up even moderate

grades all the time

Nope, I don't push, ever. I live on the steepest hill in town, and I would just cycle up it slowly in the lowest gear, barely able to keep my balance, past the peloton of pushers. Rohloff has an enormous gear range. Recently, after a couple of heart surgeries, one of which nearly killed me, I fitted an electric motor but I use it so sparingly that I have never run the 8.8Ah battery flat, though I live in very hilly country.

In fact, in independent tests, the Rohloff internal hub compared very well with derailleurs for efficiency, and, depending how your bike is specced, there could be a weight saving, though it's really irrelevant to your main Rohloff user, who isn't a roadie, or even a tourer, but a mudplugger.

8 days in washington looks interesting.....

Thanks. If you're a reader who writes reviews, you can get a free copy by dropping a note to info at coolmainpress with the com extension, mentioning the book's name.

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:31:40 AM UTC+2, raamman wrote:
On May 14, 5:39*pm, Andre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:13:53 PM UTC+1, davethedave wrote: However I'd take a derailleur system on my next bike. The """maintenance free""" Alfine is just a constant worry in terms of breakdown. It ****es oil like there is no tomorrow. In the grand old scheme of things a few more chains are neither here nor there in cost. Warranty is one thing but when you have to post the drive train of your primary mode of transport internationally for repairs and wait for a replacement for about a month or three (customs are a bitch here) whilst paying for buses and cabs it all gets a bit much. There is a lot to be said for simplicity and user serviceability. I've met almost no one who, having tried a Rohloff, didn't consider it the number solution to the mainenance problem. Twice a year I don't even get my hands dirty in servicing my entire bike, including the Rohloff. At the Rohloff end, twice a year I undo a thumscrew on the EXT click box, glance at the Phil grease inside, nod my head wisely, and screw it back up. The logic is at *http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGRo...rvice.htmlwith photographs if you're into bike pron and green goo. Once a year I screw in a cattle-type hypodermic and change the oil inside the Rohloff. I also have old-fashioned Philips platform pedals, which I bought NOS on Ebay, which are supposed to be oiled, every month, but I didn't know that so I washed all the ancient grease out of them with a can of sewing machine oil, then forcepacked them with high quality ceramic grease, and now they appear to require no further service. *I also lounge around with a small torque wrench in my hand while my wife brings me drinks, pretending to be a bike mechanic checking every nut and bolt, but of course nothing is ever loose, as my bike was built by Germans. The handwaving aside, the Rohloff really is the key component on a truly low maintenance bike. In the extremely rare case that it breaks, Rohloff usually gets it back to you, at their expense, within the week. The Hebie Chainglider follows closely in the second spot. I don't even clean or oil my chain, I just run it inside the Chainglider on the factory lube. Andre Jute- your wasting a lot of wattage with that internal gear system - I expect it must get dull having to walk your bike up even moderate grades all the time 8 days in washington looks interesting.....

Range, even steps between gears and efficiency are what makes the Rohloff special compared to other internal gear hubs. If a Rohloff hub wasn't as efficient as a derailleur system I wouldn't have one on my ATB. After a couple of km through the mud a Rohloff hub is even more efficient that a derailleur.

Lou

On 5/14/2013 6:22 PM, James wrote:
On 14/05/13 21:35, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:07:07 AM UTC+1, James wrote on another
thread:

I use a Campag Veloce chain ....

I've been running 2 chains on the one cassette (not at the same
time), and swap chains every 2 months or so. .... So far the 3
components have lasted about 10,000km. ... .... I think they're
nearly ready to be retired.

You paid for two Campy chains and got 10k km out of the pair? That's
only about 11% better than I do. I got 4506km out of my last X8 KMC
chain.

2 chains and 1 cassette. Had I run 1 chain only, the cassette would have
been worn out in half the time also.

$48 for the cheapest 10s Campag cassette and $33 for a chain, so $80
every 6 months, or $110 every 12 months. That's why I run 2 chains.

Mind you, I haven't measured the chain(s) yet. I'm only guessing they
must be about stuffed. I might leave them in service for a while yet, so
I don't break in a new chain during the worst of Winter.

9 deg. C here this morning, and wet and windy. Not my idea of fine
riding weather, and it's not even Winter yet.

LOL 9C Sunday, raining with gusts to 50k. Springtime in Quebec.
Got up to a wopping 12C last night for the training ride.

Per raamman:
your wasting a lot of wattage with that internal gear system - I
expect it must get dull having to walk your bike up even moderate
grades all the time

In my experience "A lot" is way, way, way overstated.

Rohloff's own assessment is at http://tinyurl.com/amgbpbw

I can't find a comparison of Rohloff vs a clean der at the moment, but
my recollection is that the diff is about 1% in some gears and zero in
direct drive (gear 11).

Personally, I think I can feel the diff in gears 1-7 but in gears 8-14 I
cannot. And walking the bike up a grade just doesn't happen.. period.

Also, I have my bike set up so that ear 11 (direct drive) gives me my
cruising speed.

Nobody's talking about weight. The Rohloff hub adds a solid two pounds
to the bike's weight. I don't mind it myself - I'm a slow rider - but
there are those who would say it would make them uncompetitive in a
race.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Lou Holtman:

Range, even steps between gears and efficiency are what makes the Rohloff special compared to other internal gear hubs. If a Rohloff hub wasn't as efficient as a derailleur system I wouldn't have one on my ATB. After a couple of km through the mud a Rohloff hub is even more efficient that a derailleur.

I ride too slowly to be one of the potentially-affected, but I would
think that the even spacing of Rohloff bears (13.something percent?)
would be a problem for people who have to ride competitively or
semi-competitively (as in keeping up with a pack). At the top end, 13
percent is a pretty big jump. OTOH, I can see dual chain wheels on the
front with a 1-tooth diff....
--
Pete Cresswell

On 2013-05-15 15:37:24 +0000, (PeteCresswell) said:


cruising speed.

Nobody's talking about weight. The Rohloff hub adds a solid two pounds
to the bike's weight. I don't mind it myself - I'm a slow rider - but
there are those who would say it would make them uncompetitive in a
race.

Do you have the numbers? Two pound (0.9 kg) extra seems way to much to me.


--

Lou

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:39:40 PM UTC+1, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Lou Holtman:



Range, even steps between gears and efficiency are what makes the Rohloff special compared to other internal gear hubs. If a Rohloff hub wasn't as efficient as a derailleur system I wouldn't have one on my ATB. After a couple of km through the mud a Rohloff hub is even more efficient that a derailleur.



I ride too slowly to be one of the potentially-affected, but I would

think that the even spacing of Rohloff bears (13.something percent?)

would be a problem for people who have to ride competitively or

semi-competitively (as in keeping up with a pack). At the top end, 13

percent is a pretty big jump. OTOH, I can see dual chain wheels on the

front with a 1-tooth diff....

--

Pete Cresswell

Mmm, interesting. I've heard this before, a few times, but the fact that you so infrequently hear of a twin chainwheel Rohloff installation, which isn't rocket science to achieve, indicates to me that the practical advantages are less than those the theory implies.

Andre Jute

On 2013-05-15 15:39:40 +0000, (PeteCresswell) said:

Per Lou Holtman:

Range, even steps between gears and efficiency are what makes the
Rohloff special compared to other internal gear hubs. If a Rohloff hub
wasn't as efficient as a derailleur system I wouldn't have one on my
ATB. After a couple of km through the mud a Rohloff hub is even more
efficient that a derailleur.

I ride too slowly to be one of the potentially-affected, but I would
think that the even spacing of Rohloff bears (13.something percent?)
would be a problem for people who have to ride competitively or
semi-competitively (as in keeping up with a pack). At the top end, 13
percent is a pretty big jump. OTOH, I can see dual chain wheels on the
front with a 1-tooth diff....

I agree for road racing but no one in his right mind considers a
Rohloff for road racing. For ATB use a popular cassette is 11-32T :
(11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32T) around here. In practice you only shift
in the back after chosing the chainring. The jumps between the gears
are 9-16.7-14-12.5-16.7-14.3-16.7-14% so what are we talking about?
--

Lou