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#21
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
semach.the.monkey wrote: Now, I know that none of you are UK lawyers (or if you are, I’m not expecting legal representation), but I’d like to know what the legal standpoint is with unicycles on the pavement in England. I’ve used the search facility, but haven’t come up with anything more than vague rumour, speculation or feelings. Does anyone know where I could actually look up what the law is regarding this, or how I would go about finding out? I've never managed to find a definitive answer. I believe that an 1851 amendment to the 1835 Highway Act made pavement cycling illegal, and I understand that the definition probably covers unicycles, but I haven't actually read the legislation. You could do worse than reading: http://www.unicycle.org.uk/thelaw.html I remember that, at the time the fixed penalty notice was introduced, someone wrote a letter to the Home Office asking what the situation for unicycles would be. He received a reply from a Home Office minister (Paul Boateng IIRC) stating that the FPN should *not* be applied to unicyclists. Although the application of the FPN in this case is within the letter of the law, it is against Home Office guidelines. I thought I had a copy of this letter, but I can't seem to find it. I suggest posting to uk_unicyclists to ask if anyone has a copy or can remember who it was sent to. If you can get a copy then I should imagine it would be extremely valuable in fighting your case. -- Danny Colyer http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Danny Colyer's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/11637 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
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#22
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
I'd personally keep quiet and pay. He was being strict, you were very unlucky. I've asked a senior London magistrate and his personal opinion is that if you did appeal, common sense would be applied and you would be classified under the "other similar vehicles" get-out clause. You were riding on a machine designed and capable of riding at bike speeds, so would get treated as such (If they use the policeman as a witness I'm sure he'd remember the unusual wheel size, saying it was a 20" would put you in contempt of court). I'm not sure how much use being pedantic would be, but magistrates take a dim view of hot-shot barristers being used for traffic offences. However if by some amazing chance you were to win, it could create a new precendence and therefore law (I'm not 100% sure on this, nor was he). I'm not sure what that law would be... but I wouldn't want my 9-year-old to be legally obliged to ride on the road. Finally, if you pay now it's £30. If you take it to court it will cost you much more, even if you defend yourself. Feeling rich? go for it! but get a good lawyer. PM me if you want some recommendations -- mikepenton Uni - The Unicycle Magazine 'www.unicyclemagazine.com' (http://www.unicyclemagazine.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mikepenton's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7090 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#23
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
STM - that's a pretty tough break. Were the pedestrians on the pavement? Were there any near you, or was there enough space? How far did you go on the pavement? I do ride on pavements but a) not usually on the 36" b) only when they're (pretty much) empty. And then I keep a -very- close lookout for any pedestrians who might emerge unexpectedly. It seems fairly harsh of the policeman to give you a fine, but I guess maybe they're having a crackdown on all cyclists in order to punish the irresponsible ones; you got caught in the crossfire. -- mark williamson Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? Dave: Skateboards have wheels. Mark: My wheel has a wheel! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mark williamson's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/11301 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#24
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
semach.the.monkey wrote: I can't idle on my coker, sadly, so the only other option would have been to dismount. My mounting skills on the 36" wheel aren't that great either Hey Spence, idling the coker is overrated. For London traffic, you want to be able to hop it on the spot. Tiny little hops, with a stillstand in between. Don't hop high, just like 1 or 2 cm. Doesn't take up any space like idling does, and you can get into it really quickly. If you're still rubbish at mounting the coker, you probably need to dismount more on your ride to work though, practicing once a day at the start and end of your ride and trying really hard to not dismount won't teach you the mount very quickly. Joe -- joemarshall my pics http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albuq44 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ joemarshall's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/1545 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#25
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
I ride on pavements nearly all the time. I'm afraid to ride on the road. But also a) most of the pavements round here are also cycle paths or b) I often ride with my son and even when I'm riding my bike I ride with him on the pavement. He's way to unpredictable to let cycle on a busy road. Bad luck Spence, with whatever you decide. -- cathwood Cathy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ cathwood's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9425 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#26
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
small town USA: Never had a problem with pedestrians on the sidewalk(there are none), cops giving me tickets for riding on the sidwalk, people yelling at me for riding through the supermarket, ect.... check out my "idiots on skateboards" thread -- hobo_chuck its not easy being gold! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hobo_chuck's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/14113 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#27
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
Bad luck Spence. I think they may be after you, take a look at yesterdays news in Nottingham, your other place of residence... 'POLICE VOW ACTION ON PAVEMENT CYCLISTS' (http://tinyurl.com/yvcwu8) You might have gotten away with just a warning up here - which is what should have happened anyway as it sounds like you weren't breaking the 'spirit of the law' even if you were technically. NOTE: ASAIK if an English magistrate forms an opinion such as to whether a unicycle is or is not covered by these laws they will not set a precedent. To do that an appeal on a 'point of law' would have to be taken to a higher court and a decision made there. Though in all honesty I think most people would have the opinion that a unicycle is a cycle and is covered by existing laws. -- unicus 'Photos' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Photos-from-unicus) 'Videos' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/unicus) 'The Three Peaks Unicycle Challenge' (http://www.unicycle.uk.com/wraith.htm) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ unicus's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/869 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#28
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
Firstly: bad mistake in correcting him. Had he recorded bicycle he would probably have invalidated the ticket. Secondly: Your unicycle is a "toy" of course. No way is it designed for road use...surely not your honour. "Are you seriously suggesting I should be riding my "toy" on the roadway, in London traffic?" "It is much more like skateboarding than cycling." And of course there was that PC who actually told you that you should not be wobbling along on the road, just a few weeks ago, and to get on the pavement, but to take care with the pedestrians. Nao -- Naomi The dress in which I unicycled was not THAT short, but in retrospect, I think that maybe the blue one would have been more appropriate to the terrain. Nao April 2007. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Naomi's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3322 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#29
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
Firstly: bad mistake in correcting him. Had he recorded bicycle he would probably have invalidated the ticket. Secondly: Your unicycle is a "toy" of course. No way is it designed for road use...surely not your honour. "Are you seriously suggesting I should be riding my "toy" on the roadway, in London traffic?" "It is much more like skateboarding than cycling." And of course there was that PC who actually told you that you should not be wobbling along on the road, just a few weeks ago, and to get on the pavement, but to take care with the pedestrians. Nao -- Naomi The dress in which I unicycled was not THAT short, but in retrospect, I think that maybe the blue one would have been more appropriate to the terrain. Nao April 2007. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Naomi's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3322 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#30
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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling
domesticated ape wrote: Wheter it's illegal or not, lying in court about what unicycle you were riding would be pretty sketchy, especially if you were under oath! What if your athiest? Or do they not make you swear on the bible over there? -- habbywall 'The Best Juggling Ballz in the World!!' (http://www.gballz.com) 'This is your invite.' (http://www.lost.eu/20fab) 'A PM a day keeps the doctor away. ' (http://tinyurl.com/2yxu3o) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ habbywall's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10260 View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/61524 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
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