How Do These Airborne Specs Look?

That surly looks nice but for less money you can get the Bianchi Volpe
that has STI. The barcons on the surly turn me off.
Definitely agree that for everyday riding steel is the way to go. For
a pro that looks like he's AIDS-ridden at 5'10" and 140 lbs the stiff
carbon and AL bikes might work.

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
.

Hand pains over ass pains? Wow, that's news to me.

Here--read this.

http://sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/pain.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Oh, man, this is almost as bad as Zen meditation! Don't confuse me
with details....

All these links have those Bontrager 20/24 wheelsets...??

But the Rivendell link is great -- for its Bike 101 pages!


Many thanks!



Gooserider wrote:


SNIP GOOD STUFF

Gooserider wrote:
"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hank Wirtz wrote:

"NYC XYZ" wrote in
egroups.com:



Interesting -- a $900 bike that seems like the Mongoose cromos in the
LBS for $300?? Looks like it uses old cantilever brakes, too!

I think it was Richard Schwinn who said "If bikes had always been made
from Aluminum, Carbon Fiber or Titanium, and they introduced chromoly
steel, it would be hailed as a miracle."

ROTFL! Who said the truth has to hurt?

Still...a lighter weight seems an inherent, unarugable good.


The cheapo steel bikes that are labelled as "chromoly" are usually a mix
of chromoly and high-tensile steel. Back in the day, you may have had
chromoly main tubes and High-ten stays, but I've heard of bikes in the
last 15 years having only a chromoly head tube, which is the shortest
one on the bike.

This bike is 100% chromoly, and has an intelligent design for a
bombproof, comfortable road bike. Shallow angles and long chainstays
give a comfortable ride that can better handle uneven pavement.

Don't know about the long chainstay, but the "angles" seem the same....


It has
clearance for fenders and wide tires.

Don't need fenders and wider tires -- like riding in the rain well
enough, but I don't consciously seek it, and I'm willing to trade in
the comfort of fat tires for some speed.


Fenders are nice on a commuter, because they keep both you and your
drivetrain cleaner.

You say. Depends on the environment. I've had it out with the folks on
IBOB about this. No one will believe me though. Where I live, and for
the style of riding in which I engage, fenders don't make enough
difference to be worth the hassle. My road bike goes everywhere, all
times of year. I have had fenders, and I've gone without them. I can
discern no notable difference in either rider or bike cleanliness. If
it's raining, fenders don't help (rain gear does). I noticed no
difference in drivetrain cleanliness. No difference in shoe dryness.

What I did notice is increased toe overlap (lots), maintenance headaches
(fenders really do get in the way), and a real off-road handicap. You
should try riding singletrack and jam a stick up behind your fender
(yes, 700x25-28mm road bike tires). It ain't pretty. If you come upon a
muddy road or trail, fenders clog up with mud much faster than without.

For cafe' bikes, they probably make perfect sense, when you wait for the
rain to stop and ride the wet roads to the local quafferie.

Fat tires(and by that I mean 700x28 or 700x32) aren't
necessarily slower. I average over 20mph on my Gunnar with 700x28 Panaracer
Ruffy Tuffys, not a race tire. Just pedal.

They aren't slower unless they're lower quality casings, or with
excessive tread patterns. I struggle everyday in the business trying to
convince people of the real benefits/deficits of various tire
configurations.

Curious, though...what do you think of the $900 front suspension
mountain bike with dual hydraulic disc brakes
(http://www.airborne.net/eready/janet...LB-special.asp)?


Fine. Hardtail MTBs are great, and can make good commuters with a tire
change. Discs are good and stop well in poor conditions. You'll pay a weight
penalty, and we know you're a weight weenie.

MTB's don't make good commuters, IMHO. People want mtb's as commuters
since they think the upright position makes them more visible and
provides better view. I don't subscribe. You can achieve the same
thing with a drop-bar bike.


And cantilever brakes stop great. They're better-suited to a road bike
than v-brakes because road levers (except a pricey set of Dia-Compe
287s) don't pull enough cable. Cantilevers are also better suited to
this bike than sidepulls because they have great clearance for wide
tires and fenders.

I don't get it...my experience with V-brakes has always been that they
stop quicker and more powerfully than cantilevers.


Depends on the cantilever. Again, tourist use them on bikes carrying 60
pounds of gear, so there must be something to them.

You are right. If you can easily raise the rear wheel with the front
brake, that's as good as braking can be. Cantilevers, properly setup,
provide this kind of braking power.

Most newbies don't understand that straight pull cantilevers were (re-)
developed to address a safety issue with cantilvers; that is, the
certainty of the straddle wire to stopping the front wheel on the
occasion of a front brake cable failure. Vee-brakes came around for the
same reason as "lawyers lips" on forks.


Yes, fat tires do make for a more comfortable ride. As does relaxed
frame geometry. 72 degrees vs. 73 degrees on the size 58, which would be
about right for a guy who's 5'11". Wheelbase is longer on the Surly,
too.

It's one thing to not know how such things affect handling and comfort,
and to ask to have them explained, but here you're just mocking what
anybody who knows this stuff takes for granted.

Not mocking -- just amused at the idea, that's all! Fat saddles don't
make for comfy rides, necessarily, but fat tires do...an upright
posture is comfortable and uncomfortable in different ways, and so too
the hunched-over one...it's all quite funny to me as a noob who
basically thought of bikes as, as I keep saying, some simple
pick-up-and-go affair.


Fat saddles don't make for comfortable rides because they chafe. Pad your
shorts, not your saddle. The tires, of course, are the only suspension you
have on a road bike.


Don't be put-off...I was this same way upon learning that there were
different sneakers for different tasks -- walking, running, tennis,
basketball, etc. Just chuckling here at how "complicated" such
seemingly "simple" things are!


Not complicated, really.


20 and 24 spokes for a rider weighing 230lbs? Yes, flimsy. Mega-flimsy.
Those wheels are designed for racing, where whether they last longer
than that race day isn't much of a consideration. I'm about your size,
and I prefer 36-spoke wheels, because I'd just as soon not have to true
them after every ride.

OMG...this is bad news....

Just curious...what rider weight would you recommend for a 20 and
24-spoke wheelset?


Either a lightweight, or someone who uses them on race day only. Not the
wisest choice for a city bike.

The advice for running weaker wheels on race day has always confused me.
What greater stressful environment than racing? I would choose my
stronger wheels for race day.


I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but you're looking more
and more trollish to me.

Trollish schmollish.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but people are just touchy, and I've
learned to live with it. As I'd explained to the Goose Rider, I'm just
asking questions...folks ought to learn to separate the idea from the
person. Presumably you frequent these NGs 'cause you're into bikes,
and you post based on that interest -- not whether someone here is
"attractive" to you for whatever reason.


It would have been nice, I suppose, if it seemed like any of the advice
folks gave you sank in.


Note also that it's taken all this time to finally get to something
dealing most directly with the point of my initial post, when I'd first
asked about components and specs...only now do I see that the wheels
won't be supporting my weight!

What else have y'all been holding back from me? INSERT SMILELY


From the start you were advised that your choices were less than ideal.
Specs scmecs. I've pointed out 10 or so bikes which fit your criteria to a
T.



Robin (time to start snipping, but I'm too lazy) Hubert

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

Oh, man, this is almost as bad as Zen meditation! Don't confuse me
with details....

All these links have those Bontrager 20/24 wheelsets...??

Well, the Gunnar is sold as a frameset, so you can have whatever wheels you
want. As for the others, I'm certain the shop would happily swap for a set
of 36 hole Velocity Dyad wheels or something similar. The Rivendell comes
with 36 hole Velocitys, also. Love Rivendell's philosophy, but I'm
uncomfortable buying such an expensive bike mail order.

But the Rivendell link is great -- for its Bike 101 pages!


Many thanks!

You're welcome, dude.

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

Gooserider wrote:


It depends on what your qualifications for "better" are.I don't think
that
frame weight matters for 99% of the population. If you think that a bike
that's five pouds lighter makes a difference, you should lose the five
pounds off your ass and really fly!

Ah, there's the rub...I'm also weight-lifting, and trying to
hypertrophy the muscles apparently also means consuming excess calories
(easy enough, of course! Fine dining is another hobby)...no way to
have one's cake and eat it too; wow! If this isn't an argument for
evolution I don't know what is (natural selection of specific
attributes to specific tasks and environments).

I'm in the same boat. If you lift too much you won't be a good cyclist, and
if you do too much cardio your lifting suffers. Another reason to not worry
about a superlight bike. You need a durable bike, you beast. :-)

Higher end components work better,
especially rear deraillerurs. Fenders and a rack are just accessories to
make the bike more useful---racks carry stuff and fenders keep grime off
your back and face. And of course, clipless pedals are self-explanatory.

Yes. I think derailleurs are wha't most critical to me in terms of how
I ride -- always shifting gears to match the situation at hand (or,
under feet, rather!).

You can always go with a nice singlespeed. I like it when my derailleurs
work every time, though. I can't complain about the low end Shimano stuff on
my Ibex, though. It's equipped with Shimano 2200, which is even lower on the
scale than Tiagra, yet it functions flawlessly. My Shimano 105 derailleur is
quieter and shinier though. :-)

Hmm...it looks like the Airborne deals are off...don't fancy spending
$1,200 only to have to buy myself a good set of wheels...too much
bother trying to resell the Bontragers....

Yep. If you buy from a shop they'll swap 'em for you no problem.

wrote in message
oups.com...
That surly looks nice but for less money you can get the Bianchi Volpe
that has STI. The barcons on the surly turn me off.
Definitely agree that for everyday riding steel is the way to go. For
a pro that looks like he's AIDS-ridden at 5'10" and 140 lbs the stiff
carbon and AL bikes might work.

The Volpe is a heck of a good deal. I can't imagine going wrong with a
Bianchi. I like barcons, but STI is cool.

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
araby wrote:


Please don't let on this group if you do otherwise it will generate a
thread
longer than this one

LOL -- no wonder they call y'all the up-wrong crowd!

If you do, you can forget the 19lb bike weight. Add another 10 and you
are
getting close -if you don't mind spending more than your $1200. For the
$1250 quoted elsewhere on this thread typically you can get an Easy Racer
EZ
sport. Fine as far as it goes, but forget high performance and weight
(well
over 30lb).The same manufacturer makes the Ti Gold Rush. Seems right up
your
street. Probably the best or as good as any touring recumbent out there.
Price a mere $5200. Weight 27lb
Check out:
http://www.easyracers.com/index.htm
and another reputable manufacturer,
http://www.ransbikes.com/
-for all their products.

Lightning's got this $6K 'bent that's 22 lbs. Not bad! =)

For what it's worth, I have been into and out of the recumbent phase.
Four
years was more than enough
My last recumbent was a Rans Vrex. -$1700 and 30lb.
Cheers,

Roy

Out of the 'bent "phase"?? What happened?

I tried too hard to equal my "upright" performance and finally damaged my
back. They are very fast downhill, OK on the flat, (particularly in
headwinds) and real dogs on hills. On club rides I was always 2-3kph slower
on the Vrex than on an upright Bianchi. I was also less confident in dense
traffic situations or on hill starts.
They have many other shortcomings which I won't mention to prevent the above
predicted firestorm.
..
Sure looks comfy...that's my next bike, a 'bent!

Have you never heard of "'bent butt"? Very uncomfortable!
You have pay your dues and work through any early discomfort.. Eddie Mercks
says -"ride lots". you will find that a well set up upright is if anything
more comfortable. I have just come in after a fastish 70km ride with no
discomfort at all. But you have to pay your dues. Many 'bent riders hope
they can ignore the conditioning phase and are looking for instant
gratification.
Good luck!

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:40:20 GMT, RonSonic
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:33:41 GMT, Jasper Janssen wrote:

On 23 Jul 2005 06:32:01 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

Does it seem suspicious he also deals in
used bikes, on the side, on his own?).

Only inasmuch as he's probably fencing stolen goods. If that doesn't
bother you, they're probably pretty good value for money.

Why assume they're stolen?

Because they usually are. A big association of official bike dealers here
in .nl recently started a program where they would pledge not to deal in
stolen bikes any more (think it through).


Jasper

On 24 Jul 2005 09:03:13 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

Why would they ever do this -- do they expect folks to ride this on
velodromes only, or do they figure all cyclists are skinny?

Because it sells. It looks cool, it weighs nothing, and it looks expensive
-- we all saw *you* were impressed by them, at least at first. Whether
something will last 3 months or 30 years is not something you can usually
see in a shopfront window, so people don't even think about that.

Jasper