How Do These Airborne Specs Look?

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
Vis-a-vis the price, anyway -- $1,300 for 19-lb. bikes!!

http://www.airborne.net/eready/janet...TI-special.asp

http://www.airborne.net/eready/janet...TB-special.asp


You want to be comfortable? Here you go:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly....html#complete

Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able. Heavier
than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable enough for you to
actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough and you'll easily drop
the 6 pounds of weight difference. Plus, the Surly is a better fit for NYC,
unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to handle
potholes and curbs well.

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

BTW, Ti is great but aluminum and steel are also fine. Best not to
spend too much money at this point, and make sure you get a good fit.

But just what is a "good fit"?

Bikes have always been uncomfortable to me...I just put up with it;
just figured that's how they are. What's "comfort" on a bike? It's a
damned unnatural position, to be hunched over with that thing between
one's legs like that!

Anyway, good luck,

-Ron

Thanks! Looking to get a recumbent next year, too!

Please don't let on this group if you do otherwise it will generate a thread
longer than this one
If you do, you can forget the 19lb bike weight. Add another 10 and you are
getting close -if you don't mind spending more than your $1200. For the
$1250 quoted elsewhere on this thread typically you can get an Easy Racer EZ
sport. Fine as far as it goes, but forget high performance and weight (well
over 30lb).The same manufacturer makes the Ti Gold Rush. Seems right up your
street. Probably the best or as good as any touring recumbent out there.
Price a mere $5200. Weight 27lb
Check out:
http://www.easyracers.com/index.htm
and another reputable manufacturer,
http://www.ransbikes.com/
-for all their products.

For what it's worth, I have been into and out of the recumbent phase. Four
years was more than enough
My last recumbent was a Rans Vrex. -$1700 and 30lb.
Cheers,

Roy

In article ,
"Gooserider" wrote:

I don't support communist dictatorships.

So you don't own a house, use a credit card, use any US government
services or buy just about any product for sale in Wal*Mart, Target,
KMart, Macy's, Bloomingdale's, etc. One of the largest creditors
holding US debt is China- both government debt and private debt- and of
course because of cheap labor most of the household items or clothing
you can buy in retail were made in China, at least in part. The
American way of life is dependent on poor, exploited, abused Chinese
(and also poor, exploited and abused Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis,
etc).

Are you happy supporting other types of dictatorships, such as the Saud
royal family?

On 23 Jul 2005 05:50:33 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:


RonSonic wrote:


"In some distant land it is possible that bicycle seats are made out of rainbow
and stuffed with cloud. In this world it's easier to just get used to something
hard."

Ah, straight out of the '80s Charmin commercial!

Nope, article in a cycling journal in 1905.

Heres the deal, upright position puts more weight on your ass it also forces
your legs around the saddle at an awkward angle unless you set the seat too low.
Which puts yet more weight on your ass and kills your pedalling efficiency.
That big sofa-like saddle will require that you set it low.

There is no reason for a saddle like that to be light. It simply cannot be fast
anyway.

Ah, yes, conventional wisdom. That's why it's so hard for me to find a
"comfort bike" with "performance" specs!

Sorta like finding a luxury car with sports car performance and minivan cargo
capacity.

Fit is never equal.

We're talking theory, here, and necessarily so, since there's no exact
way to quantify "comfort" and "fit," least not over usenet!

Point is, all other things are never equal. The bike I scoot up to the library
on is a bit different from the one I blast through the forests with and those
are nothing like the road beast. All do have some commonality in how I fit, but
horses for courses as they say.

As for all the brand names and model numbers, aren't you the
guy whining that the components might not be adequate to your demands. If you
want to be a weenie and fuss about that sort of thing, then get weenie about it
and fuss about that sort of thing.

???

If you wanna fuss about it then learn about it. Don't fuss AND cling to your
ignorance. That's stupid.

Better for WHAT? For WHOM? How good do the parts have to be. Shimano LX is
perfectly adequate for pounding through the mountains why won't is suffice for
you?

I'm asking the questions, and if you hear them, then I'm obviously
soliciting your opinion, as I haven't a clue what Shimano-this and
Bontrager-that means.

Well either get off your ass and find out - OR - explain just what sort of
riding you're doing that you fear LX is not good enough to handle so you can get
some meaningful advice. And brother unless you use words like "gnarly, sick,
xtreme" to describe the enormous "drops, hucks and jumps" you're taking, LX is
more than strong enough.

You don't know enough about bikes to be buying that way. Bottom line.

It's true I'm a noob when it comes to technical stuff like this, which
is why I'm asking here! Thing is, I do know I don't want some
pig-heavy Huffy from Walmart, if you take my meaning....

That part I understand. Now the part you need to understand is that you are
responsible for either learning enough to make all these decisions yourself,
which also means paying money for your mistakes, or put yourself in the hands of
someone who knows and giving him the information necessary.

No, an 18" mountain bike is not the same as an 18" comfort bike and not at all
like an 18" drop bar road bike.

Which is why I'd noted earlier about "all other things being equal" --
an 18" comfort bike is not different in that respect than another 18"
comfort bike.

Nope. One of the reason we have so many manufacturers is to provide bikes that
fit so many different people. They ain't all the same. I've got two 21" mountain
bikes, that are so different you wouldn't think they were the same size at all.
It's funny, I line those up with my 60cm road bike and the bars, saddles and
cranks all sorta line up, sorta, but nothing else is the same.

Of course, I'm asking about a hybrid and a road bike, and I know there
are differences...just wanted to pick your brains for any I may have
missed, noob that I am.

The components are different to suit the fact that they are on entirely
different styles of bike. They are perfectly good components and work far better
than you ride.

?

Trust me, these parts are better than you.

On my old Trek 7500, I must have put $500 worth of "work" into it over
about eight years...new cables, chains, cranksets, etc. I really wear
things out! But I can't imagine riding any other way -- don't see what
I might be doing wrong, if I'm prematurely wearing parts out somehow.

Nah, just need to learn to do your own maintenance.

How bad do you need to stop? Calipers work fine for what they are.

Let's put it this way...I was riding like an NYC messenger in midtown
rush-hour traffic before I actually did it for a summer spell! =)

And there's a lot of messengers out there with ONE caliper brake and a fixed
gear, which doesn't stop any better than a coaster brake. Don't let the
advertising guys get you to think that buying more stuff is the answer.

My question is what's wrong with the Trek that it should be replaced.

Upright means slow and your ass hurts.

That's intersting! I understand the "slow" part -- but I ain't racing,
just wanted as "fast" as possible given how I ride (which means
components, etc., to my way of thinking) -- though I don't see how
upright means up the ass, either. =) Do you mean "crotch" or
literally ass?? My ass rarely hurts...it's the crotch...ouch!

The more upright you sit the more of your weight is on whatever part of your
anatomy hits the saddle. If you have a stupid plush saddle it'll be your crotch
that takes the weight. If you have a proper hard saddle set high enough it'll be
the sits bones on either side of your ass and below the cheeks that bear the
load.

I can build callouses on my ass.

Use your legs.

I do, but it's the ol' suspenders-and-belt theory: two systems are
better than one. After all, I'm already using my legs anyway! And it
always gets to your back, in any case, eventually....

By raising the saddle you shift weight forward to your hands and legs. Using a
narrow relatively hard saddle means you can keep your weight off the tender bits
and onto the bony bits on either side. Sit on a hard wood bench, lean forward.
Feel the two spots your weight is on - that's what should be supporting you on
the bike. Riding on your taint is just cruelty.

You should be getting out of the saddle and shifting your position regularly.
Don't get settled in to one position.

Myself I like the Specialized BG saddles, they are fitted to the rider and have
a groove and cutout right where you don't want your weight to rest.

Ten cogs times whatever's at the front.

OIC!

Ron

Sorry for the noob questions, but thanks for your feedback!

Here's da Faqs jack: ftp://draco.acs.uci.edu/pub/rec.bicycles/faq They presume
knowledge, but there's good general info.

Ron

Jeff Starr wrote:


Bill, he kind of reminds me of early Maggie, without the charm. This
guy is so full of preconceived ideas, that it will take a miracle to
get through to him.

LOL -- actually, I simply have no idea what it means to be "fit to a
bike"...what, they take out the tape measure like at the tailor's?

For the OP, go to a LBS and get a professional fitting, bicycles can
be comfortable.

That's just the thing -- I haven't any idea what "comfortable" means!
There's this bike shop, Pedal Pushers, that claims to do *laser*
fitting...how do I know it's not just a gimmick?

I say bikes are uncomfortable because I just haven't experienced total
"comfort" on any -- but then again, all physical activity involves some
measure of discomfort...could just be the hectic way I ride, too --
could be all the pothole patches in NYC I have to go over, all the
bumps...who knows?

Overly padded bike saddles are generally not
comfortable on longer rides. Another thing, two brands of bike with
the same size listing, may be very different. Geometry and where they
measure, affects this.

Wow, this is worse than buying clothes and shoes!

Maybe some background would help. What is your age and level of
fitness? How often do you ride? Do you wear padded bicycle shorts?
Where are you located?

33, very fit (cardio and anaerobic), been riding since like 13, commute
two hours four days a week and/or ride for six hours on the weekend
exploring the NYC area. I don't wear padded shorts.

Sorry, biking alway's been a "pick-up-and-go" affair for me...never
imagined it's can be such a science for amateurs!

Life is Good!
Jeff

C'mon people, be as diligent in your topicality as you are in your bike
opinions. At least take r.b.marketplace out.

-eric

RonSonic wrote:

SNIP



Sorta like finding a luxury car with sports car performance and minivan cargo
capacity.

Yup! What's the big deal with that?? Why can't you have a woman
that's pretty and smart? DUCKS

Point is, all other things are never equal. The bike I scoot up to the library
on is a bit different from the one I blast through the forests with and those
are nothing like the road beast. All do have some commonality in how I fit, but
horses for courses as they say.

I guess I'm looking for a bike that really epitomizes the "hybrid"
concept, that's all. I too will move on to more specific roles for
each bike as I build up a "collection" in time...just want this
"workhorse" to be a good general all-around machine.

If you wanna fuss about it then learn about it. Don't fuss AND cling to your
ignorance. That's stupid.

I would think I'm learning right now! How am I clinging to anything?
Because I ask, because I doubt?

Well either get off your ass and find out -

Uh, how do I get off my ass and "find out"...I thought that's the whole
point of this thread!

OR - explain just what sort of
riding you're doing that you fear LX is not good enough to handle so you can get
some meaningful advice.

My suspicion is only based on the fact that the bike's "only" $1,200
and yet only weighs in at 19 lbs. I'm figuring corners may have been
cut somewhere!

And brother unless you use words like "gnarly, sick,
xtreme" to describe the enormous "drops, hucks and jumps" you're taking, LX is
more than strong enough.

No, I don't do "tricks" -- guess I'll be fine, then. Thanks!

That part I understand. Now the part you need to understand is that you are
responsible for either learning enough to make all these decisions yourself,
which also means paying money for your mistakes, or put yourself in the hands of
someone who knows and giving him the information necessary.

Yes, Master!

Nope. One of the reason we have so many manufacturers is to provide bikes that
fit so many different people. They ain't all the same. I've got two 21" mountain
bikes, that are so different you wouldn't think they were the same size at all.
It's funny, I line those up with my 60cm road bike and the bars, saddles and
cranks all sorta line up, sorta, but nothing else is the same.

I really don't get it...what the hell does 21 inches mean anymore??
LOL..."size" doesn't matter!

Trust me, these parts are better than you.

??

Nah, just need to learn to do your own maintenance.

So things are supposed to wear out??

I guess I really have got it backwards...I'm think bikes are inherently
"uncomfortable" but should "last"...seems like the only thing that
lasts is the frame itself -- everything else can be expected to see
replacement, including rims!

And there's a lot of messengers out there with ONE caliper brake and a fixed
gear, which doesn't stop any better than a coaster brake.

And there are messengers who use track bikes with no brakes -- ?!?!

I'm just saying, in response to your question, that at 5'11" and 230
lbs. I ride often and I ride hard!

Don't let the
advertising guys get you to think that buying more stuff is the answer.

I'm naturally skeptical; can't you tell? =)

My question is what's wrong with the Trek that it should be replaced.

Um, LOL -- it's stolen! =(

The more upright you sit the more of your weight is on whatever part of your
anatomy hits the saddle. If you have a stupid plush saddle it'll be your crotch
that takes the weight. If you have a proper hard saddle set high enough it'll be
the sits bones on either side of your ass and below the cheeks that bear the
load.

I can build callouses on my ass.

Sounds logical enough. See, bikes are inherently uncomfortable, as I
say! Even you can build padding on your ass, and your bikes fit you.

By raising the saddle you shift weight forward to your hands and legs.

Problem with this is that then the wrists and even elbows wind up hurt,
not to mention straining the neck...this is also why cycling to me has
been an "inherently uncomfortable" sport.

Using a
narrow relatively hard saddle means you can keep your weight off the tender bits
and onto the bony bits on either side. Sit on a hard wood bench, lean forward.
Feel the two spots your weight is on - that's what should be supporting you on
the bike. Riding on your taint is just cruelty.

That hurts too, riding on the bones! I do that, too, but over long
rides weight's just shifted all over the place -- I can even ride by
sitting on just one cheek!

You should be getting out of the saddle and shifting your position regularly.
Don't get settled in to one position.

Yes, I do. Glad to see I'm doing something right, then! Always
figured on bicycling being a "natural" thing.

Myself I like the Specialized BG saddles, they are fitted to the rider and have
a groove and cutout right where you don't want your weight to rest.

Cool, thanks for the tip! I'm over to Specialized's site right now to
check 'em out....

Here's da Faqs jack: ftp://draco.acs.uci.edu/pub/rec.bicycles/faq They presume
knowledge, but there's good general info.

Ron

They always presume a working know-how to begin with, don't they? How
annoying.

But thanks all the same; this looks good -- much obliged!!

Thanks for the ref -- I've never heard of "tensioned leather"...sounds
like a throw-back to yesteryear!

The more this thread develops, the more I'm getting a sense of that
"blind men describing different parts of an elephant"...where I'm all
three blind men!

Sigh...gotta learn with some $$$ what saddles suit me, I see. So I'm
gonna get a Serfas RX and one of these leather thinggies, too, and see!



C.J.Patten wrote:
NYC XYZ:

Saddles are so personal, to borrow a phrase, "you gotta break a few eggs to
make an omelette."

I have half a dozen saddles in a wicker basket in my living room. I have a
1976 Brooks Team Pro on my one and only bike. I found the Brooks *in the
trash*

If you haven't tried a tensioned leather saddle (Brooks specifically) and
you're into "comfort" not racing, you might consider giving one a shot. I
will never go back to plastic saddles unless I get in to time trialing or
something - then I'll still probably look for a Brooks Swallow.

Download their catalog at:
http://www.brookssaddles.com/docs/catalogue_05_en.pdf
(right click and "Save As...")

See Sheldon Brown's page on saddles:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

For folks opinions on the Brooks:
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Saddle/product_22663.shtml
Note the 4.83/5.00 average rating.

Good luck.
Chris

Eh? Just a fancy, minimalist title page....



Zoom wrote:



This is the place that makes the Airborne frames.
You can email them direct and they will answer your questions. Ask them
for a price list.

http://www.xacd.com.cn/

NYC XYZ wrote:
Jeff Starr wrote:


Bill, he kind of reminds me of early Maggie, without the charm. This
guy is so full of preconceived ideas, that it will take a miracle to
get through to him.


LOL -- actually, I simply have no idea what it means to be "fit to a
bike"...what, they take out the tape measure like at the tailor's?

Actually some do.... A few measurements plugged into a set of formulas
will give you a good starting point..... Typical measurements are knee
down, inseam, trunk length, arm length.....

For the OP, go to a LBS and get a professional fitting, bicycles can
be comfortable.


That's just the thing -- I haven't any idea what "comfortable" means!
There's this bike shop, Pedal Pushers, that claims to do *laser*
fitting...how do I know it's not just a gimmick?

It's probably a variation on the tape measure deal.....


I say bikes are uncomfortable because I just haven't experienced total
"comfort" on any -- but then again, all physical activity involves some
measure of discomfort...could just be the hectic way I ride, too --
could be all the pothole patches in NYC I have to go over, all the
bumps...who knows?

Depends on where the bumps have effect, perhaps you need a bike with at
least front suspension, if it's back and spine jarring, then maybe an
old fashioned leather saddle with springs will help.....

Overly padded bike saddles are generally not
comfortable on longer rides. Another thing, two brands of bike with
the same size listing, may be very different. Geometry and where they
measure, affects this.


Wow, this is worse than buying clothes and shoes!


A good LBS that does professional fitting, should know the variations,
between brands that they carry, and be able to convert from one to another.

W