#11
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function. It takes 30 seconds to spin the QR nut, and in the event I zone out and forget to get the cam tight, I've got some back-up. I might think differently if super-fast wheel changes were an issue, but they're not. It's inconvenient for the wash stand and roof rack (rarely used -- mostly use a hitch rack), but I endure. I also endure with through axles. -- Jay Beattie. |
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#12
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 5:35:01 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. They are because every time you can forget to adjust the QR correctly. Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function. It takes 30 seconds to spin the QR nut, and in the event I zone out and forget to get the cam tight, I've got some back-up. I might think differently if super-fast wheel changes were an issue, but they're not. It's inconvenient for the wash stand and roof rack (rarely used -- mostly use a hitch rack), but I endure. I also endure with through axles.. They are always an inconvenience and only a safety feature for something they created themselves. Lou -- Jay Beattie. |
#13
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Redline Conquest
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#14
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Redline Conquest
On 10/21/2019 11:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Not a huge hazard, but I think the hazard is there. Lawyer lips exist specifically for the benefit of people who don't know how to adjust and operate a quick release. But they force those people to re-adjust the quick release every time they use it! That's just weird. Admittedly, I haven't tried riding with a wheel loosely held in just by the lawyer lips, so I don't know how much stability is lost. But to me, it seems like a bad solution. I think of it as perhaps the first "racing bike" feature that marketing trickled down from enthusiasts to JRA folks, for no real practical reason. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#15
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 9:31:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/21/2019 11:34 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Not a huge hazard, but I think the hazard is there. Lawyer lips exist specifically for the benefit of people who don't know how to adjust and operate a quick release. But they force those people to re-adjust the quick release every time they use it! That's just weird. Admittedly, I haven't tried riding with a wheel loosely held in just by the lawyer lips, so I don't know how much stability is lost. But to me, it seems like a bad solution. I have, but only for a brief while after taking a bike off a stand. Hit the brakes, and its a wake-up call. I was in a race and looked down during a climb and saw that my cam was almost off -- from a quick wheel installation after getting to a race late, and that was on lip-less fork ends. I stopped, readjusted and slaughtered myself to get back on and got shelled later -- and made heroic efforts to get back on and then got shelled again and finished with some grupetto. I remember that race well for some reason. OT, one reason I remember that race is because I did it year after year. Nasty climbing course, but when the cam came loose, I was riding behind a guy on a Softride with a disc rear wheel or three spoke or something that made the bike go whoo-whoo-whoo-whoo as the wheel went around. So, imaging following a guy on a pogo stick with a rear wheel that sounded like a distant helicopter. All he needed was an MP3 player/speakers blaring Die Walküre. -- Jay Beattie. |
#16
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 6:35:02 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 11:06:54 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...-france-bikes/ Did you even bother to read that link, sparky? apparently not. Even the pictures show half the pro tour teams are riding discs. Mindless paperwork queens are always trying to convince people that they know what they're talking about even when they don't. Tell us Jr., why do you comment on things you know so little of? Your link shows pictures of the following teams bikes - with disc brakes: Bora-Hansgrohe Deceuninck Quick-Step Dimension Data Team Katusha-Alpecin Mitchelton-Scott Sunweb and Wanty-Group are riding some bikes with discs, some bikes with rims. Again, skippy, The link you posted directly contradicts your claim. So, who is it that doesn't know what they're talking about? On the smartest day of your life you couldn't out-think a tin pan could you? Someone that claims to be the world's expert in anything and everything cannot even understand the English Language. |
#17
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:41:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou I have owned all sorts of carbon bikes and perhaps if I had something with carbon dropouts I probably wouldn't take them off but I've never seen anything but aluminum dropouts. I can't even see why you would use carbon dropouts since the material is not designed to have extreme pressure applied in the fashion of a quick release and there wouldn't be weight saved because the carbon would have to be thicker than normal and very dense. Furthermore, all modern bikes have replaceable derailleur hangers and those cannot be screwed into carbon. |
#18
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Redline Conquest
Frank Krygowski writes:
On 10/21/2019 11:34 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Not a huge hazard, but I think the hazard is there. Lawyer lips exist specifically for the benefit of people who don't know how to adjust and operate a quick release. But they force those people to re-adjust the quick release every time they use it! That's just weird. Admittedly, I haven't tried riding with a wheel loosely held in just by the lawyer lips, so I don't know how much stability is lost. But to me, it seems like a bad solution. I think of it as perhaps the first "racing bike" feature that marketing trickled down from enthusiasts to JRA folks, for no real practical reason. By feature I guess you mean quick release axles. How about drop bars? Multi-speed freewheels as opposed to internally geared hubs? Toe clips? |
#19
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Redline Conquest
On 10/21/2019 11:31 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/21/2019 11:34 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Not a huge hazard, but I think the hazard is there. Lawyer lips exist specifically for the benefit of people who don't know how to adjust and operate a quick release. But they force those people to re-adjust the quick release every time they use it! That's just weird. Admittedly, I haven't tried riding with a wheel loosely held in just by the lawyer lips, so I don't know how much stability is lost. But to me, it seems like a bad solution. I think of it as perhaps the first "racing bike" feature that marketing trickled down from enthusiasts to JRA folks, for no real practical reason. It was mandated by the Federal government through CPSC regulations of 1974. At one time, there were a half-dozen styles ranging from elegant to Rube Goldberg. The infamous 'lawyer lips' won out. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#20
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 8:35:01 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function. It takes 30 seconds to spin the QR nut, and in the event I zone out and forget to get the cam tight, I've got some back-up. I might think differently if super-fast wheel changes were an issue, but they're not. It's inconvenient for the wash stand and roof rack (rarely used -- mostly use a hitch rack), but I endure. I also endure with through axles. -- Jay Beattie. It probably isn't a good idea on a disk bike because the forces of the disk act in a direction to pull the wheel out of the dropout. |
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