#41
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Redline Conquest
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:33:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 10/21/2019 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 20:54:11 UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. Cheers Really? I can't say that I have any problems removing a wheel, with a quick release, from a fork with lawyer's lips. -- cheers, John B. You have to turn the quick release lever to open the thing enough to get past those lawyer lips. Without the lawyer lips you just need to open the quick release to drop out the wheel. The real problem IMO is not spinning the thing to loosen it enough. Tht's easy. The problem is when reinstalling the wheel, you have a trial and error exercise to get the clamping pressure correct. I can reduce the trial and error a bit by holding the lever aligned with the skewer as I tighten the nut on the other end, but it still requires a bit of fussing. It's not earth shaking, but it's a bit of inconvenience. So I file the lips off the dropout. And how tight to make it. I've taken the wheel off bikes where you had to hammer the quick release lever to get it open. -- cheers, John B. |
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#42
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Redline Conquest
On 10/21/2019 8:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function. People grind them off on principle. "I'm smart enough to check the QRs before each ride so why should I have to take three more seconds to remove a wheel when fixing a flat or putting the bike on a fork mount rack? |
#43
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Redline Conquest
On 10/21/2019 9:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/21/2019 9:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:04:06 UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:31:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/21/2019 11:34 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Not a huge hazard, but I think the hazard is there. Lawyer lips exist specifically for the benefit of people who don't know how to adjust and operate a quick release. But they force those people to re-adjust the quick release every time they use it! That's just weird. Admittedly, I haven't tried riding with a wheel loosely held in just by the lawyer lips, so I don't know how much stability is lost. But to me, it seems like a bad solution. I did, for a short distance. I apparently didn't close the quick release or somehow knocked it open and started out. We have speed humps in the housing area and when I went over one I thought the bike felt funny so stopped and checked and Lo! The quick release was loose. The wheel didn't fall out, but I should point out that happened once in maybe 20 years :-) I think of it as perhaps the first "racing bike" feature that marketing trickled down from enthusiasts to JRA folks, for no real practical reason. Naw, if we still used wing nuts people would be hammering them "tight" and stripping the threads and the wheels would be falling out, perhaps as often as they do today with quick releases :-) -- cheers, John B. Wasn't it because he couldn't loosen his wingnuts when it was very cold that Tulio invented the quick release? I think so. And I wonder how many here remember those wingnuts. Very available for those who so desi https://www.pashleycollection.co.uk/product/gb-wingnuts -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#44
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Redline Conquest
On 10/21/2019 9:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/21/2019 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 20:54:11 UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. Cheers Really? I can't say that I have any problems removing a wheel, with a quick release, from a fork with lawyer's lips. -- cheers, John B. You have to turn the quick release lever to open the thing enough to get past those lawyer lips. Without the lawyer lips you just need to open the quick release to drop out the wheel. The real problem IMO is not spinning the thing to loosen it enough. Tht's easy. The problem is when reinstalling the wheel, you have a trial and error exercise to get the clamping pressure correct. I can reduce the trial and error a bit by holding the lever aligned with the skewer as I tighten the nut on the other end, but it still requires a bit of fussing. It's not earth shaking, but it's a bit of inconvenience. So I file the lips off the dropout. Problem solved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/ONE_UP.JPG made in Richland County WI USA -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#45
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Redline Conquest
On 10/22/2019 1:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:04:56 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 20:54:11 UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. Cheers Really? I can't say that I have any problems removing a wheel, with a quick release, from a fork with lawyer's lips. -- cheers, John B. You have to turn the quick release lever to open the thing enough to get past those lawyer lips. Without the lawyer lips you just need to open the quick release to drop out the wheel. Cheers True, but trying to wiggle the wheel up under the fender or get both ends of the axle in the slot while holding the rear derailer so the chain is loose I almost always end up winding the quick release almost off, lips or no lips :-( -- cheers, John B. ?? derailleur? Rears don't have wheel retention devices as an unsecured wheel simply drags on the chainstay without a rider safety aspect. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#46
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Redline Conquest
On 10/22/2019 1:50 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:33:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/21/2019 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 20:54:11 UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. Cheers Really? I can't say that I have any problems removing a wheel, with a quick release, from a fork with lawyer's lips. -- cheers, John B. You have to turn the quick release lever to open the thing enough to get past those lawyer lips. Without the lawyer lips you just need to open the quick release to drop out the wheel. The real problem IMO is not spinning the thing to loosen it enough. Tht's easy. The problem is when reinstalling the wheel, you have a trial and error exercise to get the clamping pressure correct. I can reduce the trial and error a bit by holding the lever aligned with the skewer as I tighten the nut on the other end, but it still requires a bit of fussing. It's not earth shaking, but it's a bit of inconvenience. So I file the lips off the dropout. And how tight to make it. I've taken the wheel off bikes where you had to hammer the quick release lever to get it open. -- cheers, John B. We see that every day. Oil the QR cam. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#47
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Redline Conquest
On 10/22/2019 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/21/2019 9:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/21/2019 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 20:54:11 UTC-4, John B.Â* wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, Â* wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this.Â* On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends.Â* The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long.Â* Can't grind that much metal off.Â* All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts.Â* So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation.Â* With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut.Â* Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly.Â* But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack.Â* And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut.Â* Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on.Â* Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature.Â* They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release. Cheers Really? I can't say that I have any problems removing a wheel, with a quick release,Â* from a fork with lawyer's lips. -- cheers, John B. You have to turn the quick release lever to open the thing enough to get past those lawyer lips. Without the lawyer lips you just need to open the quick release to drop out the wheel. The real problem IMO is not spinning the thing to loosen it enough. Tht's easy. The problem is when reinstalling the wheel, you have a trial and error exercise to get the clamping pressure correct. I can reduce the trial and error a bit by holding the lever aligned with the skewer as I tighten the nut on the other end, but it still requires a bit of fussing. It's not earth shaking, but it's a bit of inconvenience. So I file the lips off the dropout. Problem solved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/ONE_UP.JPG made in Richland County WI USA Wow. What will they think of next? But I filed off the lips, so now I don't need one! :-/ -- - Frank Krygowski |
#48
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Redline Conquest
On 10/22/2019 8:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/21/2019 9:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/21/2019 9:07 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:04:06 UTC-4, John B.Â* wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:31:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/21/2019 11:34 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:47:07 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, Â* wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this.Â* On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends.Â* The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long.Â* Can't grind that much metal off.Â* All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts.Â* So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation.Â* With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut.Â* Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly.Â* But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack.Â* And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut.Â* Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on.Â* Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature.Â* They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. An inconvenience, yes, but I don't think they're a safety hazard. Not a huge hazard, but I think the hazard is there. Lawyer lips exist specifically for the benefit of people who don't know how to adjust and operate a quick release. But they force those people to re-adjust the quick release every time they use it! That's just weird. Admittedly, I haven't tried riding with a wheel loosely held in just by the lawyer lips, so I don't know how much stability is lost. But to me, it seems like a bad solution. I did, for a short distance. I apparently didn't close the quick release or somehow knocked it open and started out. We have speed humps in the housing area and when I went over one I thought the bike felt funny so stopped and checked and Lo! The quick release was loose. The wheel didn't fall out, but I should point out that happenedÂ* once in maybe 20 years :-) I think of it as perhaps the first "racing bike" feature that marketing trickled down from enthusiasts to JRA folks, for no real practical reason. Naw, if we still used wing nuts people would be hammering them "tight" and stripping the threads and the wheels would be falling out, perhaps as often as they do today with quick releases :-) -- cheers, John B. Wasn't it because he couldn't loosen his wingnuts when it was very cold that Tulio invented the quick release? I think so. And I wonder how many here remember those wingnuts. Very available for those who so desi https://www.pashleycollection.co.uk/product/gb-wingnuts Also available in a drawer in my basement! ;-) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#49
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Redline Conquest
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:41:56 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 7:41:09 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance. Really? On CF forks? Not me. -- Jay Beattie. As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe. Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part. Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle. +1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard. Lou I have owned all sorts of carbon bikes and perhaps if I had something with carbon dropouts I probably wouldn't take them off but I've never seen anything but aluminum dropouts. Half of my CF forks have CF dropouts. I can't even see why you would use carbon dropouts since the material is not designed to have extreme pressure applied in the fashion of a quick release and there wouldn't be weight saved because the carbon would have to be thicker than normal and very dense. It is an integral part of the fork instead of glueing the aluminum insert in. |
#50
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Redline Conquest
On Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 1:55:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 10/21/2019 8:34 AM, jbeattie wrote: snip I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function. People grind them off on principle. "I'm smart enough to check the QRs before each ride so why should I have to take three more seconds to remove a wheel when fixing a flat or putting the bike on a fork mount rack? On principle? Really? I think people who grind them off know what they doing and made a risk assessment for their situation before doing that. They don't need a snotty remark from someone who 'benefit' from lawyer lips. Lou |
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