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#81
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Horst link bending forces
AMuzi wrote:
whatever. Campagnolo does low gears better now: http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd18r3.jpg Is that an old sticker or do they/you still deal with 531? Not that there is anything wrong with it, not today and not in a 1000 years from now... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
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#82
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Horst link bending forces
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 11:18:55 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote: On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote: lou.holtman wrote: From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality. "Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is that some casette/chainrings configuration that the pros have different? From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23 and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm. That should keep most road cyclists happy. -- Cheers, John B. For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra? You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that? Pretty typical marketing, although it does miss a marketing opportunity. Dura Ace and Record/Super Record has always catered to the racing crowd -- even the triples were "racing triples." Has DA ever had a long-cage derailleur? Perhaps the number of potential long-cage sales does not justify the manufacturing cost. Whatever the reason, the marketing decision was made 40-some years ago. Checking the web, niche marketing seems to be offering Dura Ace groups with Ultegra RD and 32t cassette. -- Jay Beattie. |
#83
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Horst link bending forces
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#84
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Horst link bending forces
Frank Krygowski wrote:
It is odd, though, that by the time many people can afford Dura-Ace, they're not strong enough to ride it. More exclusivity, I suppose. 1. No one, save for perhaps the top 15 guys, need anything better than Ultegra. 2. Because DA doesn't even have the right gear, Ultegra is actually better (or some DA/U combination is) 3. It is very frustrating! -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#86
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Horst link bending forces
On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 2:48:43 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 01:32:21 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 10:19:31 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote: lou.holtman wrote: The problem is the capacity of the DA RD. Off course you can make it work mixing groupset parts but that is not my point. If you only want it to work buy 105 but then you get also a heavy groupset with an ugly finish. Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially since you say you don't really feel any difference except for maybe when not clean and in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't continue because to feed all the porters, you need even more porters? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 I don't know what you trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people that like the incredible shifting performance, the low weight, the looks of DA gruppo and are willing to pay the price but they also need low enough gearing which is not available in DA. From Shimano marketing point of view I find this strange because the margine of DA is much larger that of 105 or Ultegra. Lou I might comment that I have substituted various Shimano made cassettes with various Shimano shifters and crank sets and even made up "custom" cassettes using Shimano parts taken from other Shimano cassettes. To data they have all shifted with no problems, assuming of course that one doesn't try to mix numbers of sprockets, i.e. don't mix 7 speed and 9 speed, for example. -- Cheers, John B. So? Would it not be nice if you buy a DA gruppo you don't need to put a Ultegra RD on to shift a 11-32 Ultegra cassette? Lou |
#87
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Horst link bending forces
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 23:14:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 2:48:43 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote: On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 01:32:21 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 10:19:31 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote: lou.holtman wrote: The problem is the capacity of the DA RD. Off course you can make it work mixing groupset parts but that is not my point. If you only want it to work buy 105 but then you get also a heavy groupset with an ugly finish. Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially since you say you don't really feel any difference except for maybe when not clean and in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't continue because to feed all the porters, you need even more porters? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 I don't know what you trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people that like the incredible shifting performance, the low weight, the looks of DA gruppo and are willing to pay the price but they also need low enough gearing which is not available in DA. From Shimano marketing point of view I find this strange because the margine of DA is much larger that of 105 or Ultegra. Lou I might comment that I have substituted various Shimano made cassettes with various Shimano shifters and crank sets and even made up "custom" cassettes using Shimano parts taken from other Shimano cassettes. To data they have all shifted with no problems, assuming of course that one doesn't try to mix numbers of sprockets, i.e. don't mix 7 speed and 9 speed, for example. -- Cheers, John B. So? Would it not be nice if you buy a DA gruppo you don't need to put a Ultegra RD on to shift a 11-32 Ultegra cassette? Lou Well, given that I saw a DA group set for a paltry $1.800 I probably shan't be experimenting with them very much. Two of my bikes still have the original down tube friction shifters on them and I think I'll wait until they wear out before investing in D.A. :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#88
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Horst link bending forces
John B. wrote:
I might comment that I have substituted various Shimano made cassettes with various Shimano shifters and crank sets and even made up "custom" cassettes using Shimano parts taken from other Shimano cassettes. To data they have all shifted with no problems, assuming of course that one doesn't try to mix numbers of sprockets, i.e. don't mix 7 speed and 9 speed, for example. I have compiled some info on this, and especially the 10S narrow casette with "direction" (?), that seems to work with 105, Ultegra and DA. Note: The table is probably very incomplete! BTW except for "direction" which I don't understand, what does the "CN-" prefix mean? China? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CASETTE [1] PIN LENGTH mm PRODUCT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 S 7.8 (5/16") KMC Basic 408: 1/2"x3/32" [2] 7 S 7.3 (9/32") 8 S 7.1 (9/32") 9 S 6.6-6.8 (1/4-9/32") 10 S 6.2 (1/4") Campagnolo, Shimano 10 S N 5.88 (7/32") Campa, KMC 10 S N D 5.88 (7/32") Sh. CN-5700, 6700, 7900 [3] 11 S 5.5 (7/32") Campa, KMC, Sh. CN-9000 [4] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...icycle%20chain [1] speed, narrow, direction [2] (plate length) x (roller width) [3] 105, Ultegra, Dura-Ace [4] Dura-Ace 11S -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#89
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Horst link bending forces
I happened to be looking at a drawing of the skeletal structure of the
human shoulder and realized that the collarbone is basically a Horst link. |
#90
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Horst link bending forces
On 2018-02-10 14:27, Tim McNamara wrote:
I happened to be looking at a drawing of the skeletal structure of the human shoulder and realized that the collarbone is basically a Horst link. Is that why it breaks so often in bicycle crashes? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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