Bar End shift cables

I'm in the process of rebuilding a couple of bicycles and have
reinstalled the old down tube shifters back on my Bangkok bike which
means that the bar end shifters move to an aluminum frame bike I've
got in Phuket.

Originally I had the shift cables for the bar end shifters wrapped for
maybe 4 inches forward of the shifters and than in a big loop down to
the stops on the down tube. I always thought that this looked a bit
messy and they also get in the way of a handle bar bag but some years
ago when I first installed bar end shifters I tried wrapping them all
the way to the stem but that seemed to add a lot of drag and made the
shifting feel very heavy, thus the partially wrapped cables.

On the "new" bike I really would like to wrap the cables all the way
for neatness but I'd also like nice light shifting which led me to
think about the cables themselves.

I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
all the way ?

Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
recommend?

--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:

:I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
:using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
:cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
:shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
:all the way ?

:Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
:recommend?

I see bikes with cables like this a fair amount, so it must work okay.
I suggest putting the shifters in place, taping the cables in the
proposed routing, and seeing how it works. If you're happy, wrap the
bars, if not, try something else. Also, running the left shifter
housing to the right stop, and vice versa, will give a less tight bend
there. cross the cables under the down tube.


--
sig 46

On 12/28/2013 6:54 AM, John B. wrote:

I'm in the process of rebuilding a couple of bicycles and have
reinstalled the old down tube shifters back on my Bangkok bike which
means that the bar end shifters move to an aluminum frame bike I've
got in Phuket.

Originally I had the shift cables for the bar end shifters wrapped for
maybe 4 inches forward of the shifters and than in a big loop down to
the stops on the down tube. I always thought that this looked a bit
messy and they also get in the way of a handle bar bag but some years
ago when I first installed bar end shifters I tried wrapping them all
the way to the stem but that seemed to add a lot of drag and made the
shifting feel very heavy, thus the partially wrapped cables.

On the "new" bike I really would like to wrap the cables all the way
for neatness but I'd also like nice light shifting which led me to
think about the cables themselves.

I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
all the way ?

Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
recommend?


The coated wires are not smoother running in lined casing
but skinnier or smoother wires are. If you can find
GripShift wires or something like them, they are smaller
diameter but also drawn to a much smoother surface finish. A
wipe of oil during installation helps too,

The classic bar end setup is, as you note, wrapped only
about 175mm from the lever. This gives a good ample arc of
casing and so runs well. With modern wires and casing and
some selection of a quality wire, you should be able to wrap
all the way up and retain good shift response.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/28/2013 6:54 AM, John B. wrote:

I'm in the process of rebuilding a couple of bicycles and have
reinstalled the old down tube shifters back on my Bangkok bike which
means that the bar end shifters move to an aluminum frame bike I've
got in Phuket.

Originally I had the shift cables for the bar end shifters wrapped for
maybe 4 inches forward of the shifters and than in a big loop down to
the stops on the down tube. I always thought that this looked a bit
messy and they also get in the way of a handle bar bag but some years
ago when I first installed bar end shifters I tried wrapping them all
the way to the stem but that seemed to add a lot of drag and made the
shifting feel very heavy, thus the partially wrapped cables.

On the "new" bike I really would like to wrap the cables all the way
for neatness but I'd also like nice light shifting which led me to
think about the cables themselves.

I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
all the way ?

Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
recommend?


p.s. You can feel the surface finish of a top quality gear
wire. Dramatically different from the lower end of things.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:54:23 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
all the way ?

Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
recommend?

On two of my bikes, I'm using friction bar end shifters with the cables under the handlebar tape. My wife's touring bike has index bar ends with the same cable routing.

I'm currently using inner cables coated with dark Teflon on those bikes. It works well, IME. I don't think my levers require excessive force, and my wife's indexing works great. I do a very light oil lube on the cables before installation.

There have been only two problems I've noticed: First, this routing uses up quite a bit of cable - more than 73". I found that out the hard way, by carrying a spare 72" cable on a tour and finding it didn't work when I broke the right shift cable. I think the ones I have in my parts box are now "Tandem Length."

Second problem is related to the slipperiness. The teflon actually makes it hard for the cable clamp at the derailleur end to grab the cable! When I first used this stuff, it would let the cable slide a bit loose. I now scrape the teflon off the portion that the clamp. I also put a 180 degree bend in the cable so it wraps the screw a bit.

One tip about spare cables: Instead of (or in addition to) carrying a spare cable, I now leave maybe 4 or 5 inches of extra cable after the cable clamp at the derailleur. The extra is rolled up into a 1" loop. When these cables break, it's always at the shifter end, right at the cast-in button. My loop allows me to loosen the clamp at the derailleur, feed some cable back the shifter, tie a knot to replace the button, then clamp in a new spot at the nether end. This trick has gotten me home twice.

- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:08:42 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:54:23 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:



I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been

using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner

cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy

shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables

all the way ?



Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they

recommend?



On two of my bikes, I'm using friction bar end shifters with the cables under the handlebar tape. My wife's touring bike has index bar ends with the same cable routing.



I'm currently using inner cables coated with dark Teflon on those bikes. It works well, IME. I don't think my levers require excessive force, and my wife's indexing works great. I do a very light oil lube on the cables before installation.



There have been only two problems I've noticed: First, this routing uses up quite a bit of cable - more than 73". I found that out the hard way, by carrying a spare 72" cable on a tour and finding it didn't work when I broke the right shift cable. I think the ones I have in my parts box are now "Tandem Length."



Second problem is related to the slipperiness. The teflon actually makes it hard for the cable clamp at the derailleur end to grab the cable! When I first used this stuff, it would let the cable slide a bit loose. I now scrape the teflon off the portion that the clamp.

That you should done the first time. Beginners error. RTM. How can this happen to you? instead off scrapping it off hold a match to the end. Burns off nicely. A coated cable in a outer cable with a teflon liner is pretty useless as oiling a good quality SS inner cable is. It only attracts dust and dirt. Never go cheap on outer and inner cables.


I also put a 180 degree bend in the cable so it wraps the screw a bit.

Ugly and not necessary.




One tip about spare cables: Instead of (or in addition to) carrying a spare cable, I now leave maybe 4 or 5 inches of extra cable after the cable clamp at the derailleur. The extra is rolled up into a 1" loop. When these cables break, it's always at the shifter end, right at the cast-in button. My loop allows me to loosen the clamp at the derailleur, feed some cable back the shifter, tie a knot to replace the button, then clamp in a new spot at the nether end. This trick has gotten me home twice.

Geezz Frank you break shift cables a lot. I have been 'hauling' a spare for at least 10 years on my bike holidays, never had to use it. Never broke one at home either. Replace them every two seasons in a warm garage.


Lou

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:57:38 PM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:08:42 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Second problem is related to the slipperiness. The teflon actually makes it hard for the cable clamp at the derailleur end to grab the cable! When I first used this stuff, it would let the cable slide a bit loose. I now scrape the teflon off the portion that the clamp.

That you should done the first time. Beginners error. RTM. How can this happen to you?

Oddly, my cables didn't seem to come with a manual. But it was OK. I made the mistake only once, and fixed it before the bike was off the workstand.

instead off scrapping it off hold a match to the end. Burns off nicely.

I'll try that, thanks.

A coated cable in a outer cable with a teflon liner is pretty useless as oiling a good quality SS inner cable is. It only attracts dust and dirt. Never go cheap on outer and inner cables.

I also put a 180 degree bend in the cable so it wraps the screw a bit.

Ugly and not necessary.

Hmm. I've never thought of the direction of the end of a cable as an aesthetic issue!




One tip about spare cables: Instead of (or in addition to) carrying a spare cable, I now leave maybe 4 or 5 inches of extra cable after the cable clamp at the derailleur. The extra is rolled up into a 1" loop. When these cables break, it's always at the shifter end, right at the cast-in button. My loop allows me to loosen the clamp at the derailleur, feed some cable back the shifter, tie a knot to replace the button, then clamp in a new spot at the nether end. This trick has gotten me home twice.

Geezz Frank you break shift cables a lot.

Actually, no. Remember, I've been riding (as an adult) for about 40 years. That's long enough to accumulate some rare experiences.

I have been 'hauling' a spare for at least 10 years on my bike holidays, never had to use it. Never broke one at home either. Replace them every two seasons in a warm garage.

Then why do you haul the spare?

- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:27:58 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

John B. wrote:

:I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
:using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
:cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
:shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
:all the way ?

:Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
:recommend?

I see bikes with cables like this a fair amount, so it must work okay.
I suggest putting the shifters in place, taping the cables in the
proposed routing, and seeing how it works. If you're happy, wrap the
bars, if not, try something else. Also, running the left shifter
housing to the right stop, and vice versa, will give a less tight bend
there. cross the cables under the down tube.

That is what I originally did, some years ago when I first got the bar
end shifters and there seemed to be considerable drag, thus my
question.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:31:33 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/28/2013 6:54 AM, John B. wrote:

I'm in the process of rebuilding a couple of bicycles and have
reinstalled the old down tube shifters back on my Bangkok bike which
means that the bar end shifters move to an aluminum frame bike I've
got in Phuket.

Originally I had the shift cables for the bar end shifters wrapped for
maybe 4 inches forward of the shifters and than in a big loop down to
the stops on the down tube. I always thought that this looked a bit
messy and they also get in the way of a handle bar bag but some years
ago when I first installed bar end shifters I tried wrapping them all
the way to the stem but that seemed to add a lot of drag and made the
shifting feel very heavy, thus the partially wrapped cables.

On the "new" bike I really would like to wrap the cables all the way
for neatness but I'd also like nice light shifting which led me to
think about the cables themselves.

I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
all the way ?

Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
recommend?


The coated wires are not smoother running in lined casing
but skinnier or smoother wires are. If you can find
GripShift wires or something like them, they are smaller
diameter but also drawn to a much smoother surface finish. A
wipe of oil during installation helps too,

The classic bar end setup is, as you note, wrapped only
about 175mm from the lever. This gives a good ample arc of
casing and so runs well. With modern wires and casing and
some selection of a quality wire, you should be able to wrap
all the way up and retain good shift response.

What started all this speculation about cable routing was a comment I
read about someone using "yamagutchi" ( or some such name) cables and
how smooth and wonderful they made the shifting. Which made me wonder
whether changing to another type of cable would let me make a bit
neater installation.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:32:43 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/28/2013 6:54 AM, John B. wrote:

I'm in the process of rebuilding a couple of bicycles and have
reinstalled the old down tube shifters back on my Bangkok bike which
means that the bar end shifters move to an aluminum frame bike I've
got in Phuket.

Originally I had the shift cables for the bar end shifters wrapped for
maybe 4 inches forward of the shifters and than in a big loop down to
the stops on the down tube. I always thought that this looked a bit
messy and they also get in the way of a handle bar bag but some years
ago when I first installed bar end shifters I tried wrapping them all
the way to the stem but that seemed to add a lot of drag and made the
shifting feel very heavy, thus the partially wrapped cables.

On the "new" bike I really would like to wrap the cables all the way
for neatness but I'd also like nice light shifting which led me to
think about the cables themselves.

I can get the conventional plastic lined outer cover which I've been
using with stainless inner cables but I've seen plastic coated inner
cables and wonder if they are "slippery" enough to give me easy
shifting with the extra bends and friction from wrapping the cables
all the way ?

Anyone comment on what they are using, how it works, and what they
recommend?


p.s. You can feel the surface finish of a top quality gear
wire. Dramatically different from the lower end of things.


There used to be a practice, in "crane maintenance" of periodically
checking for damaged cables by running one's hand over sections of the
cable to check for broken wires. Apprentices would do this and signal
the discovery of a broken wire by a loud scream of agony when the
broken wire ripped through their fingers, whereupon the older heads
would mutter, "should have had a rag in his hand :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.