Forester says...

On 2/5/2011 12:49 AM, Wes Newell wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:47 -0600, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

The greatest Usenet offense of Frank Krygowski was that for a long time
he had his email address as his user name. All the other complaints are
people not liking having their opinions challenged by rational argument.

Rational! Giving up my car for 2 years is really rational when there's no
public transportation here. You've got to be kidding. It's my opinion you
are both idiots that can't comprehend the fact that there are more places
than just your little perfect world where everyone is under 50 in the
best of physical health and there's all kind of facilities with in a few
blocks. Get lost.

So you like constructing strawmen to attack? Difficult to find things
more rude on Usenet than making false claims about what others are writing.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 2/5/2011 12:58 AM, A. Muzi wrote:
Wes Newell wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:47 -0600, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

The greatest Usenet offense of Frank Krygowski was that for a long time
he had his email address as his user name. All the other complaints are
people not liking having their opinions challenged by rational argument.

Rational! Giving up my car for 2 years is really rational when there's
no public transportation here. You've got to be kidding. It's my
opinion you are both idiots that can't comprehend the fact that there
are more places than just your little perfect world where everyone is
under 50 in the best of physical health and there's all kind of
facilities with in a few blocks. Get lost.


No one's wrong about his own opinion but, being well past 50 and a daily
rider, I offer that choices abound.

Mr. Newell was more than presenting an opinion; but was also making
false claims about what is believed by others.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

LOCAL ROADS ARE STATE ROADS. What other type of road would they be ?

On 2/5/2011 3:10 AM, kolldata aka AVAGADRO IV/V wrote:


LOCAL ROADS ARE STATE ROADS. What other type of road would they be ?

County and municipal.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 2/4/2011 6:59 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Feb 4, 5:23 pm, Peter wrote:

Mandatory sidepath laws are really a relic. The number of states with
them has declined in recent years.

There are fifteen left, AFAIK:
AL, GA, KS, LA, MI, NE, NY, ND, OK, OR, SC, UT, VA, WV, WY

It's one issue that all cycling
advocates seem to agree on.

Well, IIRC, there was a recently failed attempt in Washington to add
one, in return for getting a three foot clearance law passed. Some
bike advocates (including Andy Clarke of the League of American
Bicyclists) supported that.

I don't know what to say about a bike advocate who's in favor of
mandatory sidepaths.

I do.


They are a relic, the trend is to repeals, not new restrictions:

http://bicycledriving.org/law/guide-...-laws#sidepath

Many states have repealed this rule in response to the objections of
cyclists and the liability exposure which results from mandatory use of
facilities known to be hazardous. The most recent repeals were
Pennsylvania (1998), Vermont (2004), and Colorado (2005). The states
that still have this rule are AL, GA, KS, LA, MI, NE, NY, ND, OK, OR,
SC, UT, VA, WV, WY. In six of these 15 states the rule applies only if
there is a local ordinance or sign requiring path use (GA, MI, OK, OR,
UT, VA). In Oregon, path use, like bike lane use, is not required unless
the authorities determine after a public hearing that the path is
“suitable for safe bicycle use at reasonable rates of speed.”

On 2/4/2011 10:20 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 2/4/2011 4:23 PM, Peter Cole wrote:
[...]
There is a right to mobility. That goes back centuries, if not
millennia. The world just wouldn't function if people couldn't get
around. The public right of way is just that. To deny right of way by
vehicle type puts the burden of justification on the municipality. I am
bordered by a road that is a "private way". It is not owned by the city
or state but I can not bar traffic on it. I must allow free passage.

In the US, there is only the right to travel where there is a public
right-of-way.

Right. That's the relevant point. Hence the name.

On 2/5/2011 7:44 AM, Peter Cole wrote:
On 2/4/2011 10:20 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 2/4/2011 4:23 PM, Peter Cole wrote:
[...]
There is a right to mobility. That goes back centuries, if not
millennia. The world just wouldn't function if people couldn't get
around. The public right of way is just that. To deny right of way by
vehicle type puts the burden of justification on the municipality. I am
bordered by a road that is a "private way". It is not owned by the city
or state but I can not bar traffic on it. I must allow free passage.

In the US, there is only the right to travel where there is a public
right-of-way.

Right. That's the relevant point. Hence the name.

In the UK, travel over private lands has to be allowed by the owners in
many cases. Not so in the US.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 01:10:51 -0800, kolldata wrote:

LOCAL ROADS ARE STATE ROADS. What other type of road would they be ?

I don't know how it's handled in other states, but here, a local road is
within the city limits of a town and maintained by the city. County roads
are maintained by the county. State roads are maintained by the state.
And Interstate roads are maintained by the state also. Generally, with
exceptions, local and county roads don't get state or federal funds.
Residential streets or normally paid for by the developer and then
maintained by the city. AFAIK, city streets are the only ones that use
local property taxes for maintenance. County roads use a combination of
local and state funds. The major roads fall under the state
transportation board, and are funded either all or in part by state fuel
taxes. 75% going for roads and 25% going to education. Gasoline taxes
here are 20 cents per gallon plus 6.x%. There are also taxes on all the
other fuels and lubricants that go into this fund. As does vehicle
license fees.

So, as I stated earlier. Automobile drivers do pay for the roads. Cyclist
don't.

On 2/5/2011 2:20 PM, Wes Newell wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 01:10:51 -0800, kolldata wrote:

LOCAL ROADS ARE STATE ROADS. What other type of road would they be ?

I don't know how it's handled in other states, but here, a local road is
within the city limits of a town and maintained by the city. County roads
are maintained by the county. State roads are maintained by the state.
And Interstate roads are maintained by the state also. Generally, with
exceptions, local and county roads don't get state or federal funds.
Residential streets or normally paid for by the developer and then
maintained by the city. AFAIK, city streets are the only ones that use
local property taxes for maintenance. County roads use a combination of
local and state funds. The major roads fall under the state
transportation board, and are funded either all or in part by state fuel
taxes. 75% going for roads and 25% going to education. Gasoline taxes
here are 20 cents per gallon plus 6.x%. There are also taxes on all the
other fuels and lubricants that go into this fund. As does vehicle
license fees.

So, as I stated earlier. Automobile drivers do pay for the roads. Cyclist
don't.

Your post is self-contradictory.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 08:29:01 -0600, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

In the UK, travel over private lands has to be allowed by the owners in
many cases. Not so in the US.

What are you talking about? I think my state (Texas) is still part of the
US, and if you come on to my property without my permission I can shoot
you dead. I've traveled coast to coast and border to border and know of
no place in th US where you have the right to travel on private property
without the land owners permission. The law is called trespassing. And
here you can legally shoot someone for it under certain circumstances.
And with some of nuts in the world, I wouldn't test it.:-)