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#11
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To pass, or not to pass...
Kathleen wrote in message ...
...That is the question. I say pass em and let em eat your dust. I've ridden with guys like that who would rather cough up a lung and die than let a woman pass. They're idiots. I was passed by a string of females on a climb in a race once, and just had to shrug my shoulders, admit they were younger, stronger, better looking for sure, and maybe even better gasp!. And it's not like I was competing with them for a spot on the podium. ha. What's the big deal, guys? On our recent AMB epic, since I was predominantly "the volunteer sweeper" and I kept it in the middle ring, I often had to stop and let the slower riders work their way, (or walk their way) through the tough spots, and then I could remount and ride at my own pace to catch up, and start the cycle (no pun intended) all over again. Kinda like your stop, drink, smell the roses, let the jerks get a substantial lead, type of strategy. In your case, it is funny when complete strangers give you that kind of control over them, isn't it? Paladin Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount to finding yourself in calculus class in your underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in other words, your worst nightmare). If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never mind that that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll usually pull to the side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the scenery, and let them get far enough ahead that I can ride my pace, they can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues. This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How well could I control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I could force them up to 15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any time, simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and antisocial rider, for the most part), when I have even the slightest suspicion that somebody is toying with me. But not these guys. Did they have any idea that they were being deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally turned off onto a side trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked again, and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and stopped. Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail... |
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#12
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To pass, or not to pass...
"Kathleen" wrote in message
... spademan o---[) * wrote: Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being passed by anyone young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple of macho idiots but you dealt with them well. I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious intent, and I'm not at all sure how aware these guys were of what they were doing, let alone what *I* was doing. When they'd look back, were they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it more a case of being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential dread? Maybe neither, maybe both, who knows? The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you play a game you don't want to play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but it's more fun when you make it a choice, instead of just getting sucked into it. If it's fun for you to make a race of it out on the trail, go for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point to getting rattled about it. Kathleen Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed by women. We have several local female World Cup competitors who occasionally blow by me on the trails. There's no choice in the matter for me. It's like "Hey, that was insert famous rider name here" and before I can be sure she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of the local scene. Matt |
#13
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To pass, or not to pass...
Kathleen wrote:
Craig Brossman wrote: snip I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like it did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot of control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised. (Maybe I'm speaking for others as well) It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to it at any point simply by stopping. Maybe it was a little... cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what they'd do. But they had the same options I did. Kathleen Served 'em right if you ask me. If they're clueless about trail etiquette, they need to learn the hard way if necessary. If they're too macho to let themselves get passed by a girl, they need to bring what they've got. It would've been funny if you ended up herding them into the ground. -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine. |
#14
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To pass, or not to pass...
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:03:02 -0600, MattB wrote:
"Kathleen" wrote in message ... spademan o---[) * wrote: Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being passed by anyone young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple of macho idiots but you dealt with them well. I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious intent, and I'm not at all sure how aware these guys were of what they were doing, let alone what *I* was doing. When they'd look back, were they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it more a case of being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential dread? Maybe neither, maybe both, who knows? The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you play a game you don't want to play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but it's more fun when you make it a choice, instead of just getting sucked into it. If it's fun for you to make a race of it out on the trail, go for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point to getting rattled about it. Kathleen Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed by women. We have several local female World Cup competitors who occasionally blow by me on the trails. There's no choice in the matter for me. It's like "Hey, that was insert famous rider name here" and before I can be sure she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of the local scene. Matt You're lucky -- I've yet to see a female rider on the trails I ride, let alone one that's famous. Perhaps they thought that you didn't want to pass. Who knows? Personally, I let people pass all the time. I would've stopped to let Kathleen pass, as I like to go my own pace. If her pace is faster than mine, I'd stop. If it's slower (which would be unlikely), I'd probably pass. Last weekend, I met someone, and then we met a group of riders. Since the group knew the trail back, and we didn't, we followed them. For my style of riding, they stopped too much. I like to stop once - - when I'm done. These guys stopped all the time, although sometimes they stopped to take some drop offs. I'm the type that likes to ride the entire time I'm out, but I also don't have the skills (or the 7 inches of front and rear travel -- I have a hardtail) to even attempt what they were riding. -- Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply |
#15
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To pass, or not to pass...
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:28:50 -0600, Raptor wrote:
Craig Brossman wrote: Speaking for myself as a 40-something guy, I guess I can understand their feelings. It is not particularly easy being raised to support a family, be the pillar of strength, be aggressive in business and athletic life, and then show our sensitive side when called for, not always be competitive ... The guys I ride with, particularly those IBM riding partners, are called on to be competitive at work and have been (and still are) involved in individual and team sports. I have often heard many of us say something to the effect "everything is a competition", and I think we really believe it. It is that aggressive nature that has kept us moving forward in the corporate world and has driven us to compete with guys half our age on the basketball court and on the trail. Sometimes we do OK. I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to defend. It is just the nature of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like it did. Bear in mind, I am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot of control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised. (Maybe I'm speaking for others as well) Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying) Bah! Why is it so hard to realize that, if you're not an international champion bike racer, there's someone out there faster than you? And that unless you're a serious competitive racer of any level, that there are MANY others out there faster than you? I don't get passed often, but when I do it's not a big deal. Unless I'm on my road bike getting passed by mountain bikers. That stings a little, but it only happens if I'm on a recovery ride. I've had that happen before. -- Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply |
#16
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To pass, or not to pass...
Well Kathleen,
I think you're most probably making the whole thing up. I can just sense it. I think you made this fantasy up as you where riding alone. I'm not saying women are slower than men, just that you live in a world of make believe. I think you are sexist and this male female thing has gotten out of control. Just relax, nobody is out to prove you're the weaker sex. :-) "Kathleen" wrote in message ... ...That is the question. Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back off again. Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset that I see fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old woman is tantamount to finding yourself in calculus class in your underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in other words, your worst nightmare). If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never mind that that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll usually pull to the side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the scenery, and let them get far enough ahead that I can ride my pace, they can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues. This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as an experiment. How well could I control the pace of two complete strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at all? Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I could force them up to 15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping and gulping. I kept it up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any time, simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and antisocial rider, for the most part), when I have even the slightest suspicion that somebody is toying with me. But not these guys. Did they have any idea that they were being deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally turned off onto a side trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked again, and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every evidence of relief, pulled over and stopped. Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail... |
#17
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To pass, or not to pass...
I think it was a cool thing making the work harder than they wanted to. You
did them some good . I went riding with some 40ish guys at or local trail showing them the race loop for the weekend. I stopped a lot to let them catch up .No problem till the found out im 43 and one of the slowest in our group of riders .I don't take the racer thing that serious but I love riding ..I try to get in better shape but with a daughter and a working wife she put in 50 hour a week and I put in 50 hard to ride this summer daughter is just not that energetic for a 9 year old .but keep pushing them and 15mph is not that fast unless your riding some tight single track . or local hot rods do a average of 13 or so we have some tight single track .they do our 9.3 mile loop in 47-48 Min me I do it in 55 min. Ride Hard Stay Young!!!!!! -- J/O Trailblazer At large !! |
#18
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To pass, or not to pass...
Kathleen wrote:
...That is the question. Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of them. Not especially fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a bit slower than I wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd manage to keep it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back off again. .... Kathleen Playin' border collie on the trail... Great idea -- sounds like it was fun . But, in their defense... depending on my mood, I sometimes take an overtaking rider as a challenge -- their sex has nothing to do with it. It just gives me a push to try harder to stay ahead. I yield as they get close (I'm not trying to block them), but once they've passed me, I also try to see how long I can keep up. It helps me push myself. If it's a woman, it's a plus -- I'd much rather watch a female back going into the distance . David |
#19
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To pass, or not to pass...
Paladin wrote:
snip In your case, it is funny when complete strangers give you that kind of control over them, isn't it? That's just it, isn't it? Really, though, the only time it's really aggravating is when somebody playing games makes me bobble a climb that I thought I might have a shot at finishing. That's pretty much a once in blue moon thing, and when I think about it, if I'd been paying attention, I could have planned for it. Kathleen |
#20
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To pass, or not to pass...
Kathleen wrote:
It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to it at any point simply by stopping. Maybe it was a little... cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what they'd do. But they had the same options I did. Yeah, but you don't have the killer instinct. I would have just kept tracking them till they had to pull over and collapse, and when they had, made some witty comment about seeing how long it was going to take them. Despite what others have said, I think it's macho bull****. I feel uncomfortable with someone sitting behind me and will deliberately slow right down to make them pass if they're not going to do it voluntarily. If you want to get competitive, go do a race. |
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