bike messenging

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
"greggery peccary" .@. wrote in message
...

hey i'm thinking about applying to work as a messenger. i know there are
some of youse who do this and could use your worldly advice. are these
jobs
hard to get? i am thinking it could be fun because i love riding downtown
and im pretty good at it. im not a racer but in good shape. i do follow
the
traffic laws (unlike most messengers ive seen). are there some services in
the seattle area that are better than others? years ago i was a super
shuttle driver in la and didnt like the dispatch favotitism there. can i
avoid this?
-alan




Alan, what is a "super shuttle" driver? I'm curious.

And, if you get the messenger job, please post all about it. I am
interested. Since I live in a relatively rural area, bicycle messenger
won't work. But, I see them when I visit NY.

How does it work? Do you get connected to a dispatch system? How do you
get paid? How much does the dispatch system get?

Can you be your own dispatch and messenger together?

Tell me all about it.


I haven't been a bike courier, but I do know how they get paid.
Couriers are paid commission, the commissions vary, depending on the
number of couriers available (more couriers then jobs, can depress
commissions, as some guys would take a lower commission rate, just to
get work), courier experience, vehicle type, area covered, and other
factors. Typically they might run from 40% to 90%. The courier
supplies his/her own vehicle, and pays his/her expenses out of their own
pocket.

Say from point A to Point B, it costs $10 to get an envelope delivered,
so the actual courier gets from $4 to $9. Out of that they pay all of
their costs, a guy with a car or van would pay for his, vehicle loan,
maintenance and fuel out of his commissions (typically they get a higher
commission rate). The customer pays the company, the company keeps
track of pickups, transfers, deliveries, does the dispatching and cuts a
cheque on occassion, to the couriers. As for your own dispatching,
typically the customer doesn't pay cash, but is invoiced on a regular
basis, so you need some way to keep track, call it very difficult, to do.

Of course one issue, the faster you can get from pickup to delivery, the
faster you can get to the next job, the higher your total commissions,
which is why most of the guys are in such a hurry, time is money.

W

greggery peccary wrote:
hey i'm thinking about applying to work as a messenger. i know there are
some of youse who do this and could use your worldly advice. are these jobs
hard to get? i am thinking it could be fun because i love riding downtown
and im pretty good at it. im not a racer but in good shape. i do follow the
traffic laws (unlike most messengers ive seen). are there some services in
the seattle area that are better than others? years ago i was a super
shuttle driver in la and didnt like the dispatch favotitism there. can i
avoid this?
-alan


Read "The Immortal Class", a book written by a former messenger. It
gives you an idea of what the job is like. Not as glamorous as it might
seem...

Bill Henry wrote:
Read "The Immortal Class", a book written by a former messenger. It
gives you an idea of what the job is like. Not as glamorous as it might
seem...
I have heard that the book is written as though it all happened to the
author (because that is what the editor wanted). In actuality, it is a
set of stories collected from several messengers.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:23:39 -0500, Pat wrote:


: Alan, what is a "super shuttle" driver? I'm curious.

I took a Super Shuttle home from DFW a week ago. It's a long van that
operates like a taxi to haul more people than a taxi can. We had 8 people in
ours, all going to different directions and the driver used a GPS to figure
out which way to go first. The driver took everyone to their front doors.
It cost me $18.

OTOH, I've had Super Shuttle entirely not pick me up. A full hour after
the scheduled (and confirmed) appointment, the driver called me from
across town wanting directions to my location. Fortunately, I was already
climbing into another taxi.

This was in Minneapolis.

Reid

hey thanks for the post, and all the others. i knew i'd get some good ones
here! will let you know if/when/how it goes.
....but about the green suburban, honestly i would likely say something back
at the guy possibly about his mother. i know this is not generally a good
idea, but i accept myself (just like James Dean says haha)
-alan

greggery peccary wrote:

hey i'm thinking about applying to work as a messenger. i know there are
some of youse who do this and could use your worldly advice. are these jobs
hard to get?

Mmmm, the entry-level positions are generally there for the
taking. Just ask. The top positions in any given city,
in which riders make more than 2X what the rookies make,
are kryptonite locked. But a good rookie who does his/
her job effectively, doesn't complain, and doesn't get
hurt should be able to move up the ladder quickly--
within a year or two--to the middle tier jobs. The top
jobs that provide a decent living wage are, realistically, out of
reach, because the old gravydogz like myself who
hold them aint giving them up, and when they do, there are
already dudes who have been out there ten years or more
who are in line for them and feel--rightfully, imo--that
it is their due to take these positions when they open up.
That's the way the messenger biz has always worked.
Riders have to prove their worth over several years. Those
who aren't up to the commitment should never expect to
make more than 100 bucks a day.

Mandatory electronic filing at various courts has really
put the hurt on industry revenues. This combined with
the dot.com fizzle means there are fewer messengers than
there were ten years ago and top riders make significantly
less today than they did ten years ago.

i am thinking it could be fun because i love riding downtown
and im pretty good at it. im not a racer but in good shape. i do follow the
traffic laws (unlike most messengers ive seen).

Whoa--follow the traffic laws? You'll have to get over
that in a hurry. Following traffic laws consistently is
not really an option for a working courier. It's not a
matter of making more money, it's simply a matter of
getting the work done, satisfying the demands of clients
and bosses, and keeping your job. The bike messenger
industry is based on the running of red lights. A busy
messenger will cross under more than 100 reds in the
course of a shift. If you decide to wait for all the red
lights, you'll be fired within a half hour.

are there some services in
the seattle area that are better than others?

Of course. Unfortunately, the better companies are
generally not going to be hiring rookies but experienced,
proven couriers.

years ago i was a super
shuttle driver in la and didnt like the dispatch favotitism there. can i
avoid this?

Doubtful. Although, nota bene, a fresh rookie with a strong
back and good attitude is as likely to benefit from
dispatcher favoritism as anybody else. 'See, six-four,
The Rookie doesn't mind doing those runs to Diamond Hill..'
Bike dispatchers are a gruff, bitter bunch in general,
but they tend to get blamed for a lot of bad, lazy
messengering, so it's somewhat understandable. They also
hold much power over a messenger working on commission,
which is a recipe for resentment. Often times, the courier,
who doesn't know exactly what is going on in the office
or with the rest of the crew, gets an idea that he/she
is being screwed over, that the choice runs are going to
other messengers, etc. Sometimes it's true, most often it's
just the messenger making **** up in his/her head. Then,
when they complain and whine to the dispatcher about getting
screwed over, the dispatcher decides to REALLY screw that
rider over, a self-fulfilling prophecy. My advice to any
would-be courier is to never complain. It can't help. Just
do the work, whatever they throw at you, without a hint of
complaint. So you have to haul a 40 pound box across town
in the rain. So what! How bad could it be? It's not like
your sitting in a cubicle shuffling papers. Try to joke
around a bit with your dispatcher(s) and cultivate a
reputation for toughness. Toughness, consistency, and speed.

A lot of folks come in with the idea that they're going
to work for the summer or whatever and it's going to be a
big shiny vacation, then they get slapped with reality. If
you don't have a thick skin when you come in you will
develop one quickly or it's out the door with ya.

I have been a messenger for a long time. It's fun as hell,
delivering packages in a crowded city on a bicycle. I
recommend it to anyone who thinks they may possess the
required freakiness.

Robert

wrote:
Bill Henry wrote:

Read "The Immortal Class", a book written by a former messenger. It
gives you an idea of what the job is like. Not as glamorous as it might
seem...

I have heard that the book is written as though it all happened to the
author (because that is what the editor wanted). In actuality, it is a
set of stories collected from several messengers.

Interesting. I hadn't heard that.

Either way, I think the book gives some insight as to what it's like to
be a bike messenger.

..
:
: OTOH, I've had Super Shuttle entirely not pick me up. A full hour after
: the scheduled (and confirmed) appointment, the driver called me from
: across town wanting directions to my location. Fortunately, I was already
: climbing into another taxi.
:
: This was in Minneapolis.
:
: Reid

I think it probably helped that I was at the airport, along with half a
dozen or so other people all looking for a Super Shuttle. He just scooped us
all up.

Pat in TX

On 2 Oct 2005 20:21:17 -0700, wrote:

greggery peccary wrote:

hey i'm thinking about applying to work as a messenger. i know there are
some of youse who do this and could use your worldly advice. are these jobs
hard to get?

Mmmm, the entry-level positions are generally there for the
taking. Just ask. The top positions in any given city,
in which riders make more than 2X what the rookies make,
are kryptonite locked. But a good rookie who does his/
her job effectively, doesn't complain, and doesn't get
hurt should be able to move up the ladder quickly--
within a year or two--to the middle tier jobs. The top
jobs that provide a decent living wage are, realistically, out of
reach, because the old gravydogz like myself who
hold them aint giving them up, and when they do, there are
already dudes who have been out there ten years or more
who are in line for them and feel--rightfully, imo--that
it is their due to take these positions when they open up.
That's the way the messenger biz has always worked.
Riders have to prove their worth over several years. Those
who aren't up to the commitment should never expect to
make more than 100 bucks a day.

Mandatory electronic filing at various courts has really
put the hurt on industry revenues. This combined with
the dot.com fizzle means there are fewer messengers than
there were ten years ago and top riders make significantly
less today than they did ten years ago.

i am thinking it could be fun because i love riding downtown
and im pretty good at it. im not a racer but in good shape. i do follow the
traffic laws (unlike most messengers ive seen).

Whoa--follow the traffic laws? You'll have to get over
that in a hurry. Following traffic laws consistently is
not really an option for a working courier. It's not a
matter of making more money, it's simply a matter of
getting the work done, satisfying the demands of clients
and bosses, and keeping your job. The bike messenger
industry is based on the running of red lights. A busy
messenger will cross under more than 100 reds in the
course of a shift. If you decide to wait for all the red
lights, you'll be fired within a half hour.

are there some services in
the seattle area that are better than others?

Of course. Unfortunately, the better companies are
generally not going to be hiring rookies but experienced,
proven couriers.

years ago i was a super
shuttle driver in la and didnt like the dispatch favotitism there. can i
avoid this?

Doubtful. Although, nota bene, a fresh rookie with a strong
back and good attitude is as likely to benefit from
dispatcher favoritism as anybody else. 'See, six-four,
The Rookie doesn't mind doing those runs to Diamond Hill..'
Bike dispatchers are a gruff, bitter bunch in general,
but they tend to get blamed for a lot of bad, lazy
messengering, so it's somewhat understandable. They also
hold much power over a messenger working on commission,
which is a recipe for resentment. Often times, the courier,
who doesn't know exactly what is going on in the office
or with the rest of the crew, gets an idea that he/she
is being screwed over, that the choice runs are going to
other messengers, etc. Sometimes it's true, most often it's
just the messenger making **** up in his/her head. Then,
when they complain and whine to the dispatcher about getting
screwed over, the dispatcher decides to REALLY screw that
rider over, a self-fulfilling prophecy. My advice to any
would-be courier is to never complain. It can't help. Just
do the work, whatever they throw at you, without a hint of
complaint. So you have to haul a 40 pound box across town
in the rain. So what! How bad could it be? It's not like
your sitting in a cubicle shuffling papers. Try to joke
around a bit with your dispatcher(s) and cultivate a
reputation for toughness. Toughness, consistency, and speed.

A lot of folks come in with the idea that they're going
to work for the summer or whatever and it's going to be a
big shiny vacation, then they get slapped with reality. If
you don't have a thick skin when you come in you will
develop one quickly or it's out the door with ya.

I have been a messenger for a long time. It's fun as hell,
delivering packages in a crowded city on a bicycle. I
recommend it to anyone who thinks they may possess the
required freakiness.

Robert

This is all fascinating. May I be so rude as to ask what these better
jobs pay for how many hours per week work?

G.B.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Whoa--follow the traffic laws? You'll have to get over
that in a hurry. Following traffic laws consistently is
not really an option for a working courier. It's not a
matter of making more money, it's simply a matter of
getting the work done, satisfying the demands of clients
and bosses, and keeping your job. The bike messenger
industry is based on the running of red lights. A busy
messenger will cross under more than 100 reds in the
course of a shift. If you decide to wait for all the red
lights, you'll be fired within a half hour.
Robert


thanks Robert, very good stuff. but this news about the required running of
lights is too bad. you see i want to try to do something different one or
two days per week to get away from what i do now which is basically watch
people die (harborview). and im tired of seeing CHI S/P bike vs (pole, car,
ped, sidewalk etc.) the reason it hasnt been me is because i keep myself
seen and safe. again thanks for the help. keep safe!
-alan