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Switzerland mountain roads questions



 
 
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  #51  
Old November 2nd 08, 08:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote
Presently we're booked in Chambery, but it really looks like
Albertville would be the better place, with direct (by bike, without
car) access to the Annecy and Grand Bournand stages, and possibly a
train ride to St Bourg Maurice where we could ride to the Petite St.
Bernard pass for that stage.


* I like Chambery better as a city, with a marked bike route that
gives access to the countryside south and north (goes roughly near
lots of the hotels, I'd guess less than half a mile from the Etap on
the RN6 near Challes-les-Eaux). And I think the farmland riding
immediately accessible from Chambery is nicer than around Albertville.

* Chambery has great fast road access to most of the northern French
Alps -- and lots of other places such as the Geneva + Lyon airports.
I like to use it as a base, and I plan to use my rental car to exploit
that advantage. But if your plan is to try to avoid actually using
your rental car, then the fit is not so clear.


Chambery is in all likelihood a nicer town than Albertville;
descriptions from most being that Albertville is just kind of there, a
town without any sort of soul, sort of a shell after the Olympics. But
from Albertville there is access, by bike, to three stages... without
having to drive much (not at all for two of the stages).

Tuesday's stage over Col du Petite St-Bernard can be accessed either by
taking the train to Bourg St. Maurice, riding to the top of the pass and
then return after the race passes through. Could be a bit of a ride back
to Albertville, given the time of day (figure on not being able to get
back to Bourg St. Maurice before 18:30 or so, and it's about 55km from
there to Albertville... if the weather's nice, still something I could
do with my son; otherwise, perhaps drive the car to Moutiers and ride
from there).

* riding from Albertville to Grand Bornand sounds like a rather big
day, and could have traffic interaction problems. The N212 thru Val
d'Arly gets lots of traffic in a hurry, lots of curves, much not wide.
The obvious alternative is to ride D925 to Beaufort and then climb
over Col des Saisies -- but again the D925 gets a fair amount of
traffic, lots of tight curves, much not wide (and getting over Saisies
is substantial work). (I've never cycled either of those roads, but
I've driven them many times in my car). There are other alternatives
(the one I've cycled was the D109? thru Hery on the west side of the
N212, with some steep climbing and not such rewarding views, and it
doesn't avoid all of the N212). Another idea might be to drive to
somewhere near Flumet and only ride the climb over Col d'Aravis -- but
don't count on finding parking in the village of Flumet.


I was thinking of something a bit different. The race goes from Bourg
St. Maurice over the Cormet de Roseland and Col des Saisies before
looping out through Sallanches and back over the Col du Colombiere. A
nice ride might be to take the train from Albertville to Bourg St.
Maurice and then ride the course (many hours ahead of the race) up to
the Col des Saisies and watch the race from there. Afterward, ride back
to Albertville via Beaufort and D925, or via Flumet and N212. If we're
slower than planned, we could always see the race on the Cormet de
Roseland instead. Either way, we're dealing with the less-desirable
roads in the downhill direction, and it wouldn't be the first time we'd
ridden for miles on end downhill in the middle of the two lanes with
many hundreds of other cyclists.

Thursday is the Time Trial around Lake Annecy, a hop skip & a jump from
Albertville via N212 and the Ugine Bike Path to Lake Annecy.

Staying in Chambery we could still ride to Lake Annecy without any
problem, but the other stages would be beyond reach without driving. We
could take the train to either Albertville or Bourg St. Maurice, but it
doesn't seem safe to assume that we'll be able to get on with our bikes
if it's too crowded.

We'll still have a couple days of riding available on Sunday & Monday to
do as we please, probably involving a run to Grenoble to take in the
Alpe d'Huez and possibly the balcony roads on the opposite side.
Alternatively we could spend a day in the Vercors region. Obviously,
those would be closer to a base in Chambery.

So my present thinking is to arrive in Chambery late Saturday, ride in
the Alpe d'Huez region Monday & Tuesday, then Tuesday night move on to
Albertville.

So Chambery Saturday & Sunday & Monday nights
(rent car Saturday night in Chambery at the train station, since you
can't rent a car for the most part on a Sunday anywhere but the biggest
cities)
Albertville Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday nights
Avignon Friday & Saturday nights
(return rental car in Avignon on Sunday morning at the TGV station)
Paris Sunday

Getting to Chambery and the return from Paris are still problematic. Air
fare is still too expensive, but it's quite possible we'll see an air
fare sale sometime in the winter. I can try to use miles on United, but
it's not easy into France. Very easy to fly into London, but then
what??? The Eurostar doesn't connect up well to Heathrow, and would
involve clumsy transfers in Paris (probably coming into Gare du Nord and
then having to get to Gare Lyon, not easily done with bikes & luggage).
Taking a separate flight from London doesn't work well due to the
outrageous fees for bikes (which could be as high as $175 each way, per
bike, on United).

At least it's super easy on the TGV trip from Avignon to Paris. Our
hotel is attached, literally, to Gare Lyon.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


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  #52  
Old November 2nd 08, 03:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
sergio
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Posts: 504
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

On 29 Ott, 05:00, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

OK, a general question. Presently we're booked in Chambery, but it
really looks like Albertville would be the better place, with direct (by
bike, without car) access to the Annecy and Grand Bournand stages, and
possibly a train ride to St Bourg Maurice ...


One word about it.
I passed through Alberville only once, a long time ago, long before
the Olympics, when I was not aware (or perhaps it wasn't yet a real
road?) of the Cormet de Roselend.
It was early august, the heat was unbarable and the place so dull.
If I recall well the area is a mining district, and that added a lot
to the ugliness of the ride to Bourg Saint Maurice.
Never again!

_For Ken_
You mentioned Gadmen. Would you believe that I stopped right there,
overnight, this past august?

Sergio
éosa


  #53  
Old November 3rd 08, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote
Tuesday's stage over Col du Petite St-Bernard can be accessed either by
taking the train to Bourg St. Maurice . . . if the weather's nice, still
something I could do with my son; otherwise, perhaps drive the car to
Moutiers and ride from there).


If you're going to drive as far as Moutiers, I would definitely recommend
just keep driving to Aime -- some of the sections on the main road between
Moutiers and Aime are bike-unfriendly. Between Aime and BStM are about three
different routes that avoid the main road.

So my present thinking is to arrive in Chambery late Saturday, ride
in the Alpe d'Huez region Monday & Tuesday, then Tuesday night move on to
Albertville.


Chambery is not much closer to Bourg d'Oisans than Albertville. And for say
Col du Galibier or Col de la Croix de Fer (or Glandon though I don't found
that as interesting as the other two), Albertville is closer than Chambery.
So unless you just like switching hotel rooms every couple of days, seems
like Albertville makes more sense as a base for that whole time.

Getting to Chambery and the return from Paris are still problematic.


I'm not understanding why Paris is involved in this. Why not consider flying
in to Geneva (or Lyon, or even Torino)?

Ken


  #54  
Old November 3rd 08, 03:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

sergio wrote
I passed through Albertville only once, a long time ago . . .
If I recall well the area is a mining district, and that added
a lot to the ugliness of the ride to Bourg Saint Maurice.


I wasn't there so long ago, and I don't think the mining is so visible any
more. I've driven the main road many times (but never in August, and never
biked on it) -- I can't say much of it ever struck me as "ugly". I think
there's some pretty riding on the side roads - (if you can figure out a way
to skip the section around Moutiers and between Moutiers and Aime).

You mentioned Gadmen. Would you believe that I stopped
right there, overnight, this past august?


I've only ridden thru it (downhill) and driven my car thru it -- but it
looked pleasant and quiet. My main interest in it was as a starting point
for Sharon and me to ride up the west of Sustenpass on our tandem. It used
to be we had this nice division: We rode the gentle + moderate regions on
our tandem, and I would ride the spectacular mountain roads on separate days
after Sharon flew home. But then I made the mistake of riding one day in the
Dolomites with her on the tandem. So now she complains if she comes to
Europe and doesn't get to ride any mountain roads. So now I have to be on
the lookout for creative ways for us to ride some of the best together.

Italy: Would you believe that the brew pub in Lurago Marinone where Sharon
and I had dinner with Carla (who wrote the book about riding all around the
coasts of Europe and likes to climb Brunate by Como) was featured in the
lead article in the New York Times travel section -- about how Italy is now
becoming an important destination for artisan beers -- but so far only
Lombardia + Piemonte (?) -- though once the English-speaking ex-pats in
Toscana find out that it's trendy by reading about it in IHT or NYTimes,
maybe you'll be seeing "serious" brew pubs further south.

Ken


  #55  
Old November 3rd 08, 09:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 1,452
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote
Tuesday's stage over Col du Petite St-Bernard can be accessed either
by taking the train to Bourg St. Maurice . . . if the weather's nice,
still something I could do with my son; otherwise, perhaps drive the
car to Moutiers and ride from there).


If you're going to drive as far as Moutiers, I would definitely
recommend just keep driving to Aime -- some of the sections on the
main road between Moutiers and Aime are bike-unfriendly. Between Aime
and BStM are about three different routes that avoid the main road.

So my present thinking is to arrive in Chambery late Saturday, ride
in the Alpe d'Huez region Monday & Tuesday, then Tuesday night move
on to Albertville.


Chambery is not much closer to Bourg d'Oisans than Albertville. And
for say Col du Galibier or Col de la Croix de Fer (or Glandon though I
don't found that as interesting as the other two), Albertville is
closer than Chambery. So unless you just like switching hotel rooms
every couple of days, seems like Albertville makes more sense as a
base for that whole time.


I definitely don't enjoy switching hotel rooms more often than I have
to! But I also dislike a lot of driving. I'll check out the option of
staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how non-descript a
place people describe it as. The other option would be to stay the first
two nights in Grenoble, which is definitely a lot closer. Picking up the
car is probably going to be in Chambery no matter what though, since
there are very few places open on Saturdays. Pretty much limited to Lyon
(too far from the hotels), Chambery or Grenoble.

Thinking about it, we could probably train into Annecy and rent a car
there and drive 508/512 into Albertville. Looks like only an hour drive
or so. I could live with that. But sure would be nice if we could have
flown into Geneva!

Getting to Chambery and the return from Paris are still problematic.


I'm not understanding why Paris is involved in this. Why not consider
flying in to Geneva (or Lyon, or even Torino)?


I haven't looked into Torino, but Geneva and Lyon are both quite
expensive to fly into... which is saying something, as Paris itself is
*far* more expensive to fly into than London. If not for the bikes, I
would fly into London, Eurostar or short-hop flight to Paris, rer into
town and train to Chambery. Bikes complicate matters tremendously!

Ken


--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


  #56  
Old November 3rd 08, 02:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote
I'll check out the option of staying the entire time in Albertville,
regardless of how non-descript a place people describe it as.


A chain hotel with easy driving access on the commercial strips north or
south from Chambery isn't going to much more "atmospheric" than a chain
hotel on the commercial zone on the south side of Albertville.

I haven't looked into Torino, but Geneva and Lyon are both quite expensive
to fly into... which is saying something, as Paris itself is *far* more
expensive to fly into than London.


I just did a quick search for the week July 3-12 and the airfares for SFO -
GVA were definitely a little lower than for CDG. Yes of course _all_ the
destinations are very expensive, but that's high season (which Sharon and I
generally avoid). For us living around New York, Geneva is usually a
no-brainer . . . get off from work a little early on Friday afternoon, fly
non-stop during the night, get off the plane in the morning at the
Switz/France border, pick up rental car, assemble bike, and I'm riding up
the Col de l'Iseran in the afternoon. (or in winter time out on a short
backcountry ski tour -- one year Sharon and I were out skiing on the
cross-country trails in the Jura already before lunch on Saturday).
And the Geneva airport is open to pick up rental cars on Sunday or Saturday
(and because the airport is sitting on the national boundary, you can rent
either a France or a Switz car, though it's a trickier to drive back to the
France side of the airport to return the car with a French car).
To me saving money is important, but it's also important to maximize the
enjoyment of those limited precious days in France - (If I really wanted to
save money, I'd just stay home). I'm seeing you jumping thru hoops to worry
about picking a rental car (and giving up a beautiful afternoon of
bicycling) - but GVA is easy and it's less than 2 hours drive to Chambery or
Albertville.

Flying to and from Torino generally is not a good bet for connecting to USA.
But it's not so far from l'Alpe d'Huez (though myself if I were coming into
Torino, I'd first climb Col del Nivolet.

Ken


  #57  
Old November 4th 08, 01:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,945
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

I definitely don't enjoy switching hotel rooms more often than I have
to! But I also dislike a lot of driving. I'll check out the option of
staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how
non-descript a place people describe it as. The other option would be
to stay the first two nights in Grenoble, which is definitely a lot
closer. Picking up the car is probably going to be in Chambery no
matter what though, since there are very few places open on
Saturdays. Pretty much limited to Lyon (too far from the hotels),
Chambery or Grenoble.


Back in 2002 there was a car rental agency in the train station in
Grenoble.
  #58  
Old November 4th 08, 03:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default France + Switzerland mountain roads questions

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

I definitely don't enjoy switching hotel rooms more often than I have
to! But I also dislike a lot of driving. I'll check out the option of
staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how
non-descript a place people describe it as. The other option would be
to stay the first two nights in Grenoble, which is definitely a lot
closer. Picking up the car is probably going to be in Chambery no
matter what though, since there are very few places open on
Saturdays. Pretty much limited to Lyon (too far from the hotels),
Chambery or Grenoble.


Back in 2002 there was a car rental agency in the train station in
Grenoble.


Pretty much all major train stations have car rental agencies. The
problem is that most are closed on weekends, and sometimes even their
weekday hours are pretty darned slim. In 2007 we rented a car in Pau.
That was interesting; the rental agency was at the airport, and was open
when planes were arriving, and closed otherwise. So it would be open for
an hour or so, then closed for a couple hours, then open again...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


 




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