Chinese "craftsmanship"

On Apr 16, 7:57*am, "* * Chas" wrote:
"datakoll" wrote in message

...



I-80 is the best route to the west coast

What about Route 66?

"The West is the best.... get hip and we'll do the rest...."

Chas.

Route 66 is a pretender. The REAL, original, coast-to-coast Mother
Road across the country is the old Lincoln Highway. Some of which is
now eaten up by I-80, I-70, US-50 and others. It goes from Manhattan
to Lincoln Park at Land's End in San Francisco.

On Apr 16, 11:33 am, "* * Chas" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 16, 9:52 am, Davo wrote:



wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:06 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:47 pm, datakoll wrote:

chinese goods are excellent. The quality level is the reason Chinese
are sucking the planet's money supply.
Don't remember pre-Yamaha ? litlte toys dolls on 42nd street and
Mashuro ?
Yahnaha welders ?
Surely you must be joking. Almost everything I ever bought that was
made in China was substandard in some way. Poorly designed - saving
fraction of cent on material in the load-bearing areas etc.
They build some things OK - higher end guitars for example. So they
have skilled artisans that take pride in the product. But all the
rest is cheap junk. And the reason they "suck the money" is because
our capitalist system loves SLAVERY. Only they call it something
else now - "competitive wages" or some other euphemism.

I have a chinese made titanium frame. It's great. Nice finish, nice
welds, works great. I've had it for several years. There is a dude who
used to post here who also sells Chinese made ti frames. They are
considered top of the line. The are called Habaneros.

I rode a chinese ti mountain bike for a few years, not Habanero, I only
retired it because I changed to a bike with disk brakes (Giant Trance).
Very light and good quality.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"chinese are prone to deceit- you cannot trust them- they will start
working hard but when you turn your back they will slack off and cut
every corner they can- it's more work just trying to check on chinese
quality than you save importing from there- all the while your
companies reputation is on the line- why do you think cervelo had to
change the company building their frames in china ? there are lots of
reports of business who've gone to china to get thier wares
manufactured and got burned by them. lead paint is an example, and
just the tip of a very large iceberg"

Another point, China as a whole does not recognize any international
patents or copyrights. They produce what ever they can make a buck on. The
government may pay lip service to major international software and
entertainment companies but the beat goes on.

Graft, corruption and bribery are rampant in China. Laws against patent
and copyright infringement are rarely enforced. Fragrant Grease is the
term for what makes things work in China.

Most companies that have taken the manufacture of their products to China
have ended up regretting the move because the Chinese frequently set up
parallel manufacturing facilities and sell bootleg products both within
China and for export.

Case in point, I was doing some consulting with several golf club
manufacturers in 1999 and 2000. One of them decided to take the
manufacture of their flagship drivers to China. These drivers had
investment cast titanium heads with carbon fiber shafts and retailed for
~$500 USD each. Within 6 months the Chinese were selling the exact same
drivers on the internet for $50 USD each and later marketing them on late
night US TV for the same amount.

Another issue, this particular golf club manufacturer taught the Chinese
how to investment cast titanium and electron beam weld the heads together.
Also the lay-up on the carbon fiber shafts was better than anything I'd
seen in the US aerospace industry up until that time! What else can you do
with those technologies? Let's see....

Much of the money going to China gets filtered through the PLA (People's
Liberation Army). China has a 4000 year expansionist tradition! Think
about it!

http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp

Chas.

Actually China never had much of "expansionist tradition".
That does not mean they do not have it now. Personally I think that
our so called leaders simply gave up on any notion of competing with
China in the future - that is why they cannot wait to move our entire
manufacturing base there. Next thing that they will introduce are
compulsory Mandarin classes in schools so our kids can understand
orders
while working in a factory assembling cheap plastic toys for Chinese
kids.
Nothing lasts forever - certainly not empires that are governed by
international corporations.

" wrote:

I have a chinese made titanium frame.

what brand and model?

"Woland99" wrote in message
...
On Apr 16, 11:33 am, "* * Chas" wrote:
wrote in message


...
On Apr 16, 9:52 am, Davo wrote:



wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:06 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:47 pm, datakoll wrote:

chinese goods are excellent. The quality level is the reason
Chinese
are sucking the planet's money supply.
Don't remember pre-Yamaha ? litlte toys dolls on 42nd street and
Mashuro ?
Yahnaha welders ?
Surely you must be joking. Almost everything I ever bought that
was
made in China was substandard in some way. Poorly designed -
saving
fraction of cent on material in the load-bearing areas etc.
They build some things OK - higher end guitars for example. So
they
have skilled artisans that take pride in the product. But all the
rest is cheap junk. And the reason they "suck the money" is
because
our capitalist system loves SLAVERY. Only they call it something
else now - "competitive wages" or some other euphemism.

I have a chinese made titanium frame. It's great. Nice finish,
nice
welds, works great. I've had it for several years. There is a dude
who
used to post here who also sells Chinese made ti frames. They are
considered top of the line. The are called Habaneros.

I rode a chinese ti mountain bike for a few years, not Habanero, I
only
retired it because I changed to a bike with disk brakes (Giant
Trance).
Very light and good quality.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"chinese are prone to deceit- you cannot trust them- they will start
working hard but when you turn your back they will slack off and cut
every corner they can- it's more work just trying to check on chinese
quality than you save importing from there- all the while your
companies reputation is on the line- why do you think cervelo had to
change the company building their frames in china ? there are lots of
reports of business who've gone to china to get thier wares
manufactured and got burned by them. lead paint is an example, and
just the tip of a very large iceberg"

Another point, China as a whole does not recognize any international
patents or copyrights. They produce what ever they can make a buck on.
The
government may pay lip service to major international software and
entertainment companies but the beat goes on.

Graft, corruption and bribery are rampant in China. Laws against
patent
and copyright infringement are rarely enforced. Fragrant Grease is the
term for what makes things work in China.

Most companies that have taken the manufacture of their products to
China
have ended up regretting the move because the Chinese frequently set
up
parallel manufacturing facilities and sell bootleg products both
within
China and for export.

Case in point, I was doing some consulting with several golf club
manufacturers in 1999 and 2000. One of them decided to take the
manufacture of their flagship drivers to China. These drivers had
investment cast titanium heads with carbon fiber shafts and retailed
for
~$500 USD each. Within 6 months the Chinese were selling the exact
same
drivers on the internet for $50 USD each and later marketing them on
late
night US TV for the same amount.

Another issue, this particular golf club manufacturer taught the
Chinese
how to investment cast titanium and electron beam weld the heads
together.
Also the lay-up on the carbon fiber shafts was better than anything
I'd
seen in the US aerospace industry up until that time! What else can
you do
with those technologies? Let's see....

Much of the money going to China gets filtered through the PLA
(People's
Liberation Army). China has a 4000 year expansionist tradition! Think
about it!

http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp

Chas.

Actually China never had much of "expansionist tradition".
That does not mean they do not have it now. Personally I think that
our so called leaders simply gave up on any notion of competing with
China in the future - that is why they cannot wait to move our entire
manufacturing base there. Next thing that they will introduce are
compulsory Mandarin classes in schools so our kids can understand
orders
while working in a factory assembling cheap plastic toys for Chinese
kids.
Nothing lasts forever - certainly not empires that are governed by
international corporations.

There was a lot of rumbling few years back when the US Army tried to
switch to black berets that were made in China!

Chas.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 16, 6:33 pm, "* * Chas" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 16, 9:52 am, Davo wrote:



wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:06 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:47 pm, datakoll wrote:

chinese goods are excellent. The quality level is the reason
Chinese
are sucking the planet's money supply.
Don't remember pre-Yamaha ? litlte toys dolls on 42nd street and
Mashuro ?
Yahnaha welders ?
Surely you must be joking. Almost everything I ever bought that was
made in China was substandard in some way. Poorly designed - saving
fraction of cent on material in the load-bearing areas etc.
They build some things OK - higher end guitars for example. So they
have skilled artisans that take pride in the product. But all the
rest is cheap junk. And the reason they "suck the money" is because
our capitalist system loves SLAVERY. Only they call it something
else now - "competitive wages" or some other euphemism.

I have a chinese made titanium frame. It's great. Nice finish, nice
welds, works great. I've had it for several years. There is a dude
who
used to post here who also sells Chinese made ti frames. They are
considered top of the line. The are called Habaneros.

I rode a chinese ti mountain bike for a few years, not Habanero, I
only
retired it because I changed to a bike with disk brakes (Giant
Trance).
Very light and good quality.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"chinese are prone to deceit- you cannot trust them- they will start
working hard but when you turn your back they will slack off and cut
every corner they can- it's more work just trying to check on chinese
quality than you save importing from there- all the while your
companies reputation is on the line- why do you think cervelo had to
change the company building their frames in china ? there are lots of
reports of business who've gone to china to get thier wares
manufactured and got burned by them. lead paint is an example, and
just the tip of a very large iceberg"

Another point, China as a whole does not recognize any international
patents or copyrights. They produce what ever they can make a buck on.
The
government may pay lip service to major international software and
entertainment companies but the beat goes on.

Graft, corruption and bribery are rampant in China. Laws against patent
and copyright infringement are rarely enforced. Fragrant Grease is the
term for what makes things work in China.

Most companies that have taken the manufacture of their products to
China
have ended up regretting the move because the Chinese frequently set up
parallel manufacturing facilities and sell bootleg products both within
China and for export.

Case in point, I was doing some consulting with several golf club
manufacturers in 1999 and 2000. One of them decided to take the
manufacture of their flagship drivers to China. These drivers had
investment cast titanium heads with carbon fiber shafts and retailed for
~$500 USD each. Within 6 months the Chinese were selling the exact same
drivers on the internet for $50 USD each and later marketing them on
late
night US TV for the same amount.

Another issue, this particular golf club manufacturer taught the Chinese
how to investment cast titanium and electron beam weld the heads
together.
Also the lay-up on the carbon fiber shafts was better than anything I'd
seen in the US aerospace industry up until that time! What else can you
do
with those technologies? Let's see....

Much of the money going to China gets filtered through the PLA (People's
Liberation Army). China has a 4000 year expansionist tradition! Think
about it!

http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp

Chas.

Yeah, but they were nice clubs, right? ;-)

Joseph

I don't know, by that time I parted company because my services were no
longer needed.

BTW, hundreds of employees in San Diego, CA, Prescott, AZ and Tijuana,
Mexico were put out of work by the greed of a few "executives"!

Chas.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:31:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I have a chinese made titanium frame. It's great. Nice finish, nice
welds, works great. I've had it for several years.

I have ridden a Habanero ti bike/Chorus/Neuvation wheels for 4 years,
23,000 miles with 0 problems. The welds are beautifully done, easily
equal to Merlin, Moots, Litespeed, etc.

There is a dude who
used to post here who also sells Chinese made ti frames. They are
considered top of the line. The are called Habaneros.

This is Mark Hickey. He ceased posting here a couple of years ago, I
think because of the overabundance of off-topic political rancor. He's
great to deal with for frames or complete bikes.

http://www.habcycles.com

On Apr 16, 7:23*pm, "* * Chas" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 16, 6:33 pm, "* * Chas" wrote:



wrote in message

...
On Apr 16, 9:52 am, Davo wrote:

wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:06 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:47 pm, datakoll wrote:

chinese goods are excellent. The quality level is the reason
Chinese
are sucking the planet's money supply.
Don't remember pre-Yamaha ? litlte toys dolls on 42nd street and
Mashuro ?
Yahnaha welders ?
Surely you must be joking. Almost everything I ever bought that was
made in China was substandard in some way. Poorly designed - saving
fraction of cent on material in the load-bearing areas etc.
They build some things OK - higher end guitars for example. So they
have skilled artisans that take pride in the product. But all the
rest is cheap junk. And the reason they "suck the money" is because
our capitalist system loves SLAVERY. Only they call it something
else now - "competitive wages" or some other euphemism.

I have a chinese made titanium frame. It's great. Nice finish, nice
welds, works great. I've had it for several years. There is a dude
who
used to post here who also sells Chinese made ti frames. They are
considered top of the line. The are called Habaneros.

I rode a chinese ti mountain bike for a few years, not Habanero, I
only
retired it because I changed to a bike with disk brakes (Giant
Trance).
Very light and good quality.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"chinese are prone to deceit- you cannot trust them- they will start
working hard but when you turn your back they will slack off and cut
every corner they can- it's more work just trying to check on chinese
quality than you save importing from there- all the while your
companies reputation is on the line- why do you think cervelo had to
change the company building their frames in china ? there are lots of
reports of business who've gone to china to get thier wares
manufactured and got burned by them. lead paint is an example, and
just the tip of a very large iceberg"

Another point, China as a whole does not recognize any international
patents or copyrights. They produce what ever they can make a buck on.
The
government may pay lip service to major international software and
entertainment companies but the beat goes on.

Graft, corruption and bribery are rampant in China. Laws against patent
and copyright infringement are rarely enforced. Fragrant Grease is the
term for what makes things work in China.

Most companies that have taken the manufacture of their products to
China
have ended up regretting the move because the Chinese frequently set up
parallel manufacturing facilities and sell bootleg products both within
China and for export.

Case in point, I was doing some consulting with several golf club
manufacturers in 1999 and 2000. One of them decided to take the
manufacture of their flagship drivers to China. These drivers had
investment cast titanium heads with carbon fiber shafts and retailed for
~$500 USD each. Within 6 months the Chinese were selling the exact same
drivers on the internet for $50 USD each and later marketing them on
late
night US TV for the same amount.

Another issue, this particular golf club manufacturer taught the Chinese
how to investment cast titanium and electron beam weld the heads
together.
Also the lay-up on the carbon fiber shafts was better than anything I'd
seen in the US aerospace industry up until that time! What else can you
do
with those technologies? Let's see....

Much of the money going to China gets filtered through the PLA (People's
Liberation Army). China has a 4000 year expansionist tradition! Think
about it!

http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp

Chas.
Yeah, but they were nice clubs, right? ;-)
Joseph

I don't know, by that time I parted company because my services were no
longer needed.

BTW, hundreds of employees in San Diego, CA, Prescott, AZ and Tijuana,
Mexico were put out of work by the greed of a few "executives"!

I don't doubt that, but the original point was to refute that all
Chinese stuff is crap.

Joseph

"Guy Anderson, Sr." wrote:

I have ridden a Habanero ti bike/Chorus/Neuvation wheels for 4 years,
23,000 miles with 0 problems.

what model do you have?

is it a mt bike frame or the cross/tour frame?

On Apr 16, 11:33*am, "* * Chas" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 16, 9:52 am, Davo wrote:





wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:06 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:47 pm, datakoll wrote:

chinese goods are excellent. The quality level is the reason Chinese
are sucking the planet's money supply.
Don't remember pre-Yamaha ? litlte toys dolls on 42nd street and
Mashuro ?
Yahnaha welders ?
Surely you must be joking. Almost everything I ever bought that was
made in China was substandard in some way. Poorly designed - saving
fraction of cent on material in the load-bearing areas etc.
They build some things OK - higher end guitars for example. So they
have skilled artisans that take pride in the product. But all the
rest is cheap junk. And the reason they "suck the money" is because
our capitalist system loves SLAVERY. Only they call it something
else now - "competitive wages" or some other euphemism.

I have a chinese made titanium frame. It's great. Nice finish, nice
welds, works great. I've had it for several years. There is a dude who
used to post here who also sells Chinese made ti frames. They are
considered top of the line. The are called Habaneros.

I rode a chinese ti mountain bike for a few years, not Habanero, I only
retired it because I changed to a bike with disk brakes (Giant Trance).
Very light and good quality.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"chinese are prone to deceit- you cannot trust them- they will start
working hard but when you turn your back they will slack off and cut
every corner they can- it's more work just trying to check on chinese
quality than you save importing from there- all the while your
companies reputation is on the line- why do you think cervelo had to
change the company building their frames in china ? there are lots of
reports of business who've gone to china to get thier wares
manufactured and got burned by them. lead paint is an example, and
just the tip of a very large iceberg"

Another point, China as a whole does not recognize any international
patents or copyrights. They produce what ever they can make a buck on. The
government may pay lip service to major international software and
entertainment companies but the beat goes on.

Graft, corruption and bribery are rampant in China. Laws against patent
and copyright infringement are rarely enforced. Fragrant Grease is the
term for what makes things work in China.

Most companies that have taken the manufacture of their products to China
have ended up regretting the move because the Chinese frequently set up
parallel manufacturing facilities and sell bootleg products both within
China and for export.

Case in point, I was doing some consulting with several golf club
manufacturers in 1999 and 2000. One of them decided to take the
manufacture of their flagship drivers to China. These drivers had
investment cast titanium heads with carbon fiber shafts and retailed for
~$500 USD each. Within 6 months the Chinese were selling the exact same
drivers on the internet for $50 USD each and later marketing them on late
night US TV for the same amount.

Another issue, this particular golf club manufacturer taught the Chinese
how to investment cast titanium and electron beam weld the heads together.
Also the lay-up on the carbon fiber shafts was better than anything I'd
seen in the US aerospace industry up until that time! What else can you do
with those technologies? Let's see....

Much of the money going to China gets filtered through the PLA (People's
Liberation Army). China has a 4000 year expansionist tradition! Think
about it!

http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp

Chas.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I appreciate your input; but it's not just the top of the ladder, the
bottom rung are just as bad- if you've ever worked with someone from
the prc you'll discover a lack of commitment and carelessness towards
their product: I know this smacks of racism, but it is more of a
comment on their cultural conditioning. It's like asking a garbageman
to employ graceful movements and flourish when throwing bags left on
the curb into the back of the truck

wrote:
" wrote:

I have a chinese made titanium frame.

what brand and model?

http://www.xacd.com.cn/