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Helmet Nazis at It Again!



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 16th 06, 05:22 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!

In article ,
R Brickston rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ writes:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:49:50 -0700, (Tom
Keats) wrote:

In article ,
Bill Baka writes:

My only response to this thread is about the same as before.


Everybody's an expert.

Especially you.


Whoa....! Keats Attacks Baka .......!


You're an expert too.


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  #53  
Old September 16th 06, 05:57 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!

In article ,
(Tom Keats) writes:
In article ,
(Tom Keats) writes:
In article .com,
"Pat" writes:

Tom Keats wrote:
In article .com,
"Pat" writes:

As an aside, many helmets are not used correctly and therefore have
their safety compromized. They are really "one use" items. If you
bonk your head or even drop the helmet, its time for a new one.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm curious -- what happens to the styrofoam if a helmet is dropped on
the floor from, say, handlebar height? How /exactly/ does it fracture
or fail? And if currently available helmets are so fragile, what good
are they?

If you drop one once or even maybe a few times, it'll look okay. But
the question is: what will happen if you take a hard impact and need
the helmet. Is it still okay?


No.

My question is: What happens to a helmet that renders it needing
to be replaced if it falls on the floor?

Note I didn't even qualify between a carpeted living room floor
or a concrete-slab basement floor. Heretofore nobody else has, either.

The foam can compress, break apart,
fracture, etc. under the plastic shell and you'd never know it.


/How/? What deformations does it incur? And why are bicycle helmets
allowed to be so frail?

And as I previously asked -- if bicycle helmets are so fragile,
what good are they?


Hello? Hello-oh!! Is there anybody out there to answer my questions?

Especially the one about how if a bicycle helmet is so fragile that
it must be replaced if dropped on the floor, what good is such a frail
structure while riding?


Hey, gawd-f***ing dammit, I live in a jurisdiction where I
either have to wear a glorified styrofoam egg-carton on my
head while riding, or pay a punishing fine if I don't.

So tell me -- what tangible benefits to I get from being
legistatedly forced to wear a glorified egg carton on my head
while riding, tbat's so useless that it has to be replaced if
I drop it on the floor?

As for accidentally dropping helmets on the floor, it seems
to me that styrofoam is not glass.
  #54  
Old September 16th 06, 06:55 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
Pat
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Posts: 671
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!


Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
(Tom Keats) writes:
In article ,
(Tom Keats) writes:
In article .com,
"Pat" writes:

Tom Keats wrote:
In article .com,
"Pat" writes:

As an aside, many helmets are not used correctly and therefore have
their safety compromized. They are really "one use" items. If you
bonk your head or even drop the helmet, its time for a new one.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm curious -- what happens to the styrofoam if a helmet is dropped on
the floor from, say, handlebar height? How /exactly/ does it fracture
or fail? And if currently available helmets are so fragile, what good
are they?

If you drop one once or even maybe a few times, it'll look okay. But
the question is: what will happen if you take a hard impact and need
the helmet. Is it still okay?

No.

My question is: What happens to a helmet that renders it needing
to be replaced if it falls on the floor?

Note I didn't even qualify between a carpeted living room floor
or a concrete-slab basement floor. Heretofore nobody else has, either.

The foam can compress, break apart,
fracture, etc. under the plastic shell and you'd never know it.

/How/? What deformations does it incur? And why are bicycle helmets
allowed to be so frail?

And as I previously asked -- if bicycle helmets are so fragile,
what good are they?


Hello? Hello-oh!! Is there anybody out there to answer my questions?

Especially the one about how if a bicycle helmet is so fragile that
it must be replaced if dropped on the floor, what good is such a frail
structure while riding?


Hey, gawd-f***ing dammit, I live in a jurisdiction where I
either have to wear a glorified styrofoam egg-carton on my
head while riding, or pay a punishing fine if I don't.

So tell me -- what tangible benefits to I get from being
legistatedly forced to wear a glorified egg carton on my head
while riding, tbat's so useless that it has to be replaced if
I drop it on the floor?

As for accidentally dropping helmets on the floor, it seems
to me that styrofoam is not glass.


Sure it's like glass -- fiberglass. I believe that's what the outer
layer is.

If you go down (or drop it) once, it might look fine but be cracked.
The next time (and hopefully there isn't a next time) it might not hold
together when it is whacked.

Impacts could cause a number of things to go wrong. It could cause a
crack that cause the helmet to split in half on the second impact. It
could also compress the foam (which isn't elastic) and the second time
you don't have the same level of protection becaus the foam is
compromised. You could also have a situation that there is a crack
near the chin/ear and if you impact something it could break off a
chunk and the chin strap would have nothing to hold onto and the helmet
could come off.

For some bikes, like mine, you're talking a 850lb bike with the engine
the same size as a small car. Lots of things can go wrong just because
of the size, weight, speed and the fact that you are out in the car
lanes.

On a motorcycle, helmets play a variety of roles that they don't on a
bike. First off, they protect the eyes if you wear a screen. That's
real important. Second off, it protects the head from debris: rocks,
rain, bugs, etc. It also cuts down of noise and wind, so it isn't as
tiring. For some rides, it also holds the communication equipment:
stereo speakers, CB/radio speakers, intercom, and microphone. Finally,
if you're riding with 2 people -- esp. a kid on the back -- you have to
take into account that motorcyles can stop and accelerate faster than
anything else on the road. Because of that, it's not uncommon to have
the rider's head hit the driver in the back when breaking. It's not
too hard, but it's noticable (when I get clunked right on the spine
between the shoulders). I helmet helps protect the passenger in the
instance.

Someone mentioned gloves. I wear gloves but not really for the
protection. It is more for the grip. Holding the throttle for an hour
or so can hurt your hand. So with a good glove, it makes it so you
don't have to squeeze so hard to grip it.

Plus helmets, gloves, leathers, etc. all play a role now it is getting
cooler and you have to take windchill into account.

On bicycles, I am sure there are benefits to a helmet but the benefits
are nowhere near the same as the benefits on a motorcycle. Just
getting hit with a June Bug or rock or grasshopper at 70 mph is a whole
different thing than getting his at 30 mph. I think bike helmets are
designed lighter so that they control the crash of you hitting the
ground or maybe a slow moving car. They can absorb that and help you.
But they are not design for a 30mph bike hitting a 45 mph car head-on.

As for me, I can understand people not wanting to wear a helmet on a
bicycle. I generally don't when I ride one. But I do on a motorcycle.
I was in PA just a few weeks ago and road for about 20 min without
one, just to say I did. But I was uncomfortable and found I actually
prefer a helmet for no other reason than to keep the wind off my eyes.


To answer the question someone is bound to ask. My helmet is about 3.5
years old and I don't intend of replacing it soon -- but it's out of
the sun all winter so there's no UV exposure. If I dropped in concrete
from shoulder level, yes, I probably would replace it. For my kids'
helmets, I would definately replace it.

Here's a weird final thought for you. There are, I believe, 3 classes
of mopeds in NY. I think the Class C can go up to 15 MPH. So
basically, it could be outrun by a bicycle. However, the moped
requires a motorcycle helmet but someone over 14 on a bike isn't
required (by state law) to wear anything. Go figure.

  #55  
Old September 16th 06, 07:46 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
Bill Baka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 528
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!

Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Bill Baka writes:

My only response to this thread is about the same as before.


Everybody's an expert.

Especially you.


Have you ever been run over by a train and cut in two without head
injuries and the top half jumped up and said "I'm fine."? I saw the
results of human versus car and human versus Semi and helmet or not, all
the pieces scattered around were DEAD. My wife and her 2 children by a
first husband (wife beater) saw a drunk try to hop a train and he missed
the handrail. He went right under the wheels on the bridge and there
were people trying to picnic down there with human body parts falling on
them. The major part of his liver fell in the exact middle of their
cloth. His head, unhurt, was about 50 feet away, without a helmet.
The fire department was called not to render aid and sew him back
together, but to pick up all the pieces and hose off both the tracks and
the beach. Since this happened before I met my wife in 1977 all I can
say is that it happened sometime in the 1970's in Santa Cruz, Ca.

Do yah think a brain bucket would have saved him?
Maybe they wrote it up as pedestrian killed, no helmet.

For you, a big "Duh!".
Bill Baka
  #56  
Old September 16th 06, 08:06 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!


Roger Houston wrote:
"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

WRT the helmet lobby, it's mainly liberals I see pushing this helmet thing

around

Liberal Nazis.

Only in America...


You imply that Nazis are not liberal, hence they are conservative. But
Nazis were socialists (with some additional sick ideas). Hardly a
conservative ideology.

Joseph

  #58  
Old September 16th 06, 09:42 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!

In article . com,
"Pat" writes:

My question is: What happens to a helmet that renders it needing
to be replaced if it falls on the floor?

Note I didn't even qualify between a carpeted living room floor
or a concrete-slab basement floor. Heretofore nobody else has, either.

The foam can compress, break apart,
fracture, etc. under the plastic shell and you'd never know it.

/How/? What deformations does it incur? And why are bicycle helmets
allowed to be so frail?

And as I previously asked -- if bicycle helmets are so fragile,
what good are they?

Hello? Hello-oh!! Is there anybody out there to answer my questions?

Especially the one about how if a bicycle helmet is so fragile that
it must be replaced if dropped on the floor, what good is such a frail
structure while riding?


Hey, gawd-f***ing dammit, I live in a jurisdiction where I
either have to wear a glorified styrofoam egg-carton on my
head while riding, or pay a punishing fine if I don't.

So tell me -- what tangible benefits to I get from being
legistatedly forced to wear a glorified egg carton on my head
while riding, tbat's so useless that it has to be replaced if
I drop it on the floor?

As for accidentally dropping helmets on the floor, it seems
to me that styrofoam is not glass.


Sure it's like glass -- fiberglass. I believe that's what the outer
layer is.


I don't think so.

If you go down (or drop it) once, it might look fine but be cracked.


How? I've dropped a lot of styrofoam in my time, and have never
had it shatter or be damaged such that it can't survive a second
dropping.

The next time (and hopefully there isn't a next time)


Yeah, a person could go broke, replacing helmets that have been
accidentally dropped on the living room carpet.

it might not hold
together when it is whacked.

Impacts could cause a number of things to go wrong.


You can say that again. But it seems to me a helmet should
be able to survive a little rough[ish] handling.

It could cause a
crack that cause the helmet to split in half on the second impact. It
could also compress the foam (which isn't elastic) and the second time
you don't have the same level of protection becaus the foam is
compromised. You could also have a situation that there is a crack
near the chin/ear and if you impact something it could break off a
chunk and the chin strap would have nothing to hold onto and the helmet
could come off.


How utterly useless.

For some bikes, like mine, you're talking a 850lb bike with the engine
the same size as a small car. Lots of things can go wrong just because
of the size, weight, speed and the fact that you are out in the car
lanes.


You do realize we're talking about /bicycle/ helmets, don't you?
As in Bell[tm] "Courage For Your Head" egg carton material.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
  #59  
Old September 16th 06, 10:28 AM posted to nyc.bicycles,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc,nyc.general
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default Helmet Nazis at It Again!

In article ,
Zoot Katz writes:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:57:55 -0700, (Tom
Keats) concluded:
/
As for accidentally dropping helmets on the floor, it seems
to me that styrofoam is not glass.


I wear a skate rated pot with a hard shell. They're supposedly able
to take multiple impacts from one meter. That's about how far I drop
it at least once a week.


Sk8 lids provide some protection to the occipital
(perhaps the most vulnerable) region of the skull.
Typical bike helmets are designed as if yer gonna
land on yer crown in a fall. About the only way a
rider is going to hit anything with his/her crown
is in a head-on collision with a motor vehicle where
the rider gets torpedo-launched into the windshield,
or flung over & behind the motor vehicle, landing
head-first onto the road. And while helmets aren't
ostensibly intended for that, that's the skull
protection their design implies (or downright lies about.)

Actually, I'm particularly appreciating my own bucket
right now, now that horse chestnuts are falling out
of the boulevard trees.

I once tested it by walking, head-down, into a brick wall.


Better replace it ;-)

IIRC it had something to do with demonstrating a point during a
headgear discussion.

Wearing the required hard-hat at work, I'd sometimes deliberately
walk into a stud or door frame just to comment how glad I was to have
been wearing that plastic hat.


Wear 'em backwards in the rain, and they gutter the rain behind
your back like a fireman's hat. More or less. Until you look down
to roll a smoke.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 




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