A not so great biking day.....(kinda long)

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:35:10 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::: The owner of the LBS (another lady, not the hot lady) told me that
::: she thinks I ride uphill in too high a gear, putting a lot of
::: stress on the rear wheel. I do generally tend to shift down as I
::: go up a hill, but I also follow the cadence, trying to keep it at
::: or above 60.
::
:: The force is the same whether you're in a low gear with a high
:: cadence or a high gear with a low cadence. If you're climbing the
:: hill in a high gear with high cadence, then you're one powerful
:: *******.

Yeah, and I'm not. Frankly, I found it hard to believe that I ride uphill
in too high a gear. Between trying to keep my HR from topping out and
protecting my knees, I'm pretty careful that way. I get winded a lot on
these hills around here...


::
:: The force everywhere between the tire's tread and the hub is exactly
:: whatever force is required to get your ass up that hill at your
:: speed. Changing gears cannot effect it, except if by changing gears
:: you are able to go faster.
::
::: Is she feeding me hooey?
::
:: 100% hooey.

Thanks. I thought so...The older lady has a lot of experience, but I think
her technical knowledge is limited.

Sat, 29 May 2004 18:09:16 -0400, ,
"Roger Zoul" wrote:

::
:: If you want to learn more than most people ever need to know about
:: wheel building, head over to rec.bicycles.tech and look through the
:: archives

Will do...thanks.

What you'll find is a predilection to slag your low spoke "boutique"
wheels. They are not made to be user serviceable. Most of the
responses thusfar have presumed conventionaly built wheels.

http://www.rolfprima.com/faq/
From the Rolf Prima FAQ

"Q: Is there a rider weight limit on Rolf Wheels?
A: It really comes down to physics - regardless of wheel brand, spoke
pattern or number of spokes used, a heavier rider imparts a higher
load on the wheel than a lighter rider. Road conditions, mileage, and
riding style play a significant role in determining the limits of a
wheel. If you have concerns about wheel strength weight or rider
style, check with your local authorized Rolf Prima dealer for a rider
evaluation. "

That sounds like a cop-out. Further reading points to other
discomforting disclaimers regarding "Rolf Wheels" branded wheels.
The "Rolf design" wheels on the Specialized may or may not be
sufficiently strong as Rolf makes a wheel specifically for heavier
riders or rough roads.

I suggest a person your size ride a more conventional wheel, at least
until you smooth-out your style.

Get a pair of "training" wheels and save these as your "race" wheels.
--
zk

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 12:26:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::: Well, Thursday I had cleats put in my shoes and I switched over to
::: clipless pedals.
::
:: Congrats.

thanks...

::
::: I spent an hour or more on the trainer at the LBS getting used to
::: locking in/out. The hot lady who works there adjusted the tension
::: so that they were pretty easy to lock in/out -- which seemd to be
::: what I needed at the time.
::
:: We all need hot ladies bending over our feet making adjustments to
:: our equipment.

Honestly, I love going in there for anything because of her. So do about a
zillion other guys

::
::: Everything was great for the next 16 miles or so, in fact, it
::: seemed like my speed was up, though I was pushing it a bit since I
::: had birthday cake last night and wanted to burn it off....at mile
::: 20...I was coming to a stop to
::
:: Mmmm...cake. I had birthday cake last night too. I'll have more
:: tonight, dammit!

Well, I left mine there so I could not get more...hopefully, it got thrown
out. I ate nearly half of it (it was a one layer small diameter cake,
though, but still!)

::
::: to stop....Bamn! Fell to the right. Turns out, my right foot had
::: locked back in and I didn't even know it! That was really
::: embarrassing as I was
::
:: This demonstrates, at least, how easy it is to get in... :/

Yep...too easy...seems that most times you want it this way, but this was
not one of those times

::
::: talking to him and we both knew the moment I was going down. It
::: all happens in slow motion it seems, even though once you start to
::: go you can't do much
::
:: You learn to have a scared panic reaction. You freak out and yank
:: your whole foot some random way which ends up releasing from the
:: pedal.

I hope so!

::
::: about it. Glad I had my helmet on as my head hit the pavement.
::: Talk about the inverted pendulum problem.
::
:: I hope that doesn't start a helmet war...

me too...

::
::: Anywho...at about 25 miles out along the route, I hear this
::: noise....had popped a spoke on the rear wheel. Dang -- I just had
::: popped a spoke on tuesday on that same wheel and had to have it
::: trued. Well, there I was with
::
:: Your wheels were not properly tensioned and/or not stress relieved.
:: Helpful hot chick or not, your LBS is insufficient.

Yeah...I'm starting to get that....some other lady trued my wheel...I
remember spinning it and noting to her that it had a wobble...and she could
see that it was right radially, either. So she trued it again....but she was
so young...she probably doesn't truly understand what needs to be done to
properly repair a wheel (and neither do I right at this moment, but I'm
going find out!)

::
::: the wheel out of true again. I could do nothing to get the spoke
::: back in. Some out-of-town cyclist came by to offer a hand...he was
::: training for an Ironman event in Florida (we're in SC)...there was
::: nothing he could do so he wished my a good walk home...I was
::: looking at about 11 miles....not too bad
::
::: I released the rear brake and tried to ride with the wheel out of
::: true...it all seemed to be working, so I made a U-turn in the
::: middle of the road to head for the meet point. But, alas, the rear
::: wheel hung and --- what do you
::
:: How did the rear wheel hang? Was it so terrible untrue that it
:: couldn't rub past the released brake on one side?

It would catch on the released brake if you just spin it freely....and I
think it catching while I was moving slowly is what called my third spill.
..I did get it free enough by playing with the brakes to be able to roll the
bike along...

::
::: know --- bamn! I was on the friggin pavement again! This time I
::: felt a bit defeated.
::
:: I would too.
::
::: I hurried to the LBS where the hot lady (who sold me my bike)
::: managed to rush my bike back so I can get it back by 3pm
::: (hopefully, that was nice of her to try, huh?). I discovered that
::: my left palm is all swollen, too. Must be from one of those
::: falls....
:::
::: Comments on how to avoid any more spills and what to do with a
::: popped spoke and an untrued wheel on a ride would be much
::: appreciated. Somehow, I feel a bit unsure if myself now....damn!
::
:: You don't have a spoke wrench, a multi-tool, or pliers? A broken
:: spoke can be removed, wrapped around the next spoke, zip-tied to the
:: next spoke, or whatever else it takes.

I had allen wrenches and a tool for removing the tires. I did finally
position the spoke on a part of the rim so it wouldn't move...

An untrue wheel can be made
:: to ride sufficiently well for getting home with the brakes released;
:: just go at it with a spoke wrench (or the multi-tool's spoke wrench,
:: or the pliers) until it only rubs half-terribly on the released
:: brake.

I'm going to get one -- performance as a multitool...

::
:: For spills, make sure your cleats were installed correctly. They
:: could be installed backwards, or maybe wrong-sided. What kind of
:: pedals do you have?

Shimano 505R, SPDs...I'm no expert, but they seemed to clip in and out just
fine. I had no problems until I gave up my forward momentum. Then it was
hit-your-big-ass-on-the-pavement time!

Finally, practice on the lawn, with your dog or
:: kids or parents running randomly in front of you from behind trees
:: to surprise you.
::
:: Also, disengage _before_ the [red light|turn|stop|whatever], even if
:: you're not sure it [the light] will be red. Nobody says you have to
:: stay engaged until the last possible second. You can ride disengaged
:: until you're sure you won't need a foot on the ground.

Right...this is exactly what I tried to do the before the second
spill....but since I got clipped back in and didn't know it....I was kissing
the pavement!

"Roger Zoul" wrote in news:10bi0ni29d7ka97
@corp.supernews.com:

Rolf design 700c twin spoke design

If you do decide to have a wheel built, I would recommend a 36 hole hollow
section rim with a three cross lace for the spokes. I like Mavic, Sun, or
Velocity rims personally. Maybe go with a mountain hub. Yes that's kind
of old school, but it's also bombproof. A good hand built wheel can take
wheel-killer potholes and remain true. You definitely want to choose the
builder carefully. A good builder will want you to bring the bike in after
about 100 miles or so to retension the wheels. Depending on what parts are
chosen, $160 should cover it. Ready built wheels might be available for
about that or even a little cheaper. I know that sounds like a lot but I
suspect that the wheels that were spec'd with your Specialized would cost
about that bought separately.

Mike

garmonboezia wrote in
news:Uf9uc.15057$eY2.7649@attbi_s02:

"Roger Zoul" wrote in news:10bi0ni29d7ka97
@corp.supernews.com:

Rolf design 700c twin spoke design

If you do decide to have a wheel built, I would recommend a 36 hole
hollow section rim with a three cross lace for the spokes. I like
Mavic, Sun, or Velocity rims personally. Maybe go with a mountain
hub. Yes that's kind of old school, but it's also bombproof. A good
hand built wheel can take wheel-killer potholes and remain true. You
definitely want to choose the builder carefully. A good builder will
want you to bring the bike in after about 100 miles or so to retension
the wheels. Depending on what parts are chosen, $160 should cover it.
Ready built wheels might be available for about that or even a little
cheaper. I know that sounds like a lot but I suspect that the wheels
that were spec'd with your Specialized would cost about that bought
separately.

Mike


Oops. It just sank in that these are Rolfs. Add $300 at least.

In article ,
says...

....

:: I'd get the wheel rebuilt first. Spokes shouldn't break in the first
:: place.

How/where does one do that and what does it entail?

Take it to a bike shop which has a good wheel builder (not all do), and
tell them that you're breaking spokes. They should at least tension and
stress relieve the spokes, and if the original materials are poor, they
might want to completely replace them.


The owner of the LBS (another lady, not the hot lady) told me that she
thinks I ride uphill in too high a gear, putting a lot of stress on the rear
wheel. I do generally tend to shift down as I go up a hill, but I also
follow the cadence, trying to keep it at or above 60.

Is she feeding me hooey?

The stress on the wheel won't be affected by what gear you're in, only
how fast you're going up any given hill. However, 60 is a pretty low
cadence; my knees wouldn't put up with that for long, though YMMV.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

Sat, 29 May 2004 23:56:47 GMT, 3r9uc.10918$pt3.5869@attbi_s03,
garmonboezia wrote:

Oops. It just sank in that these are Rolfs. Add $300 at least.

They're "Rolf design" so I guess an offshore company pays a licensing
fee to use said design.
--
zk

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Well, Thursday I had cleats put in my shoes and I switched over to
clipless
pedals.

I spent an hour or more on the trainer at the LBS getting used to locking
in/out. The hot lady who works there adjusted the tension so that they
were
pretty easy to lock in/out -- which seemd to be what I needed at the time.
I got home, moved the bike out of the garage, locked in the left foot,
then
nearly fell to my left. I managed to catch myself. I got on the bike and
rode around my small subdivision a bit while practicing locking in /
locking
out.. No real problems until once I got to a stop while a car was going
by...I felt unsure....

So yesterday I did about 6 miles around my neighborhood, hitting a few
hard
hills. Practiced locking in / locking out while riding -- over and over.
Didn't really stop, though. No problems. I found that working the cleats
in / out of the pedals on a real bike ride is much easier than doing so on
a
trainer. I felt good about it...

That brings the story to today, my first real day of bicycling shame, I
might add. I was planning to do 45 to 50 miles, depending on how I felt.
So, I left out at first light, got through the first red light fine -- had
to stop...locked out right foot...no problems...Got to the place where I
meet my riding buddy about 4 miles from my house -- he's there ready and
waiting....so I lock out my right foot...sort coast up to him to chat a
bit.
Get my right foot to the ground. Bamn! Fell to the left (while talking
to
him) while left foot is locked in (Pat suggested I lock out both feet but
I
forgot)...there was a slight incline near the road edge so that my right
side was lower then my left...on the fall I twisted the saddle, and
knocked
off some of the seat material -- I guess a new saddle is in my distant
future. Messed up the rear brakes enough that the rear tire didn't roll
freely. Fixed all of that...

Everything was great for the next 16 miles or so, in fact, it seemed like
my
speed was up, though I was pushing it a bit since I had birthday cake last
night and wanted to burn it off....at mile 20...I was coming to a stop to
meet my riding buddy, who got there ahead of me (he weighs 60 lbs less
than
I do)...so this time I lock out both feet as I only had maybe 30 yards to
go
to stop....Bamn! Fell to the right. Turns out, my right foot had locked
back in and I didn't even know it! That was really embarrassing as I was
talking to him and we both knew the moment I was going down. It all
happens
in slow motion it seems, even though once you start to go you can't do
much
about it. Glad I had my helmet on as my head hit the pavement. Talk
about
the inverted pendulum problem.

Anywho...at about 25 miles out along the route, I hear this noise....had
popped a spoke on the rear wheel. Dang -- I just had popped a spoke on
tuesday on that same wheel and had to have it trued. Well, there I was
with
the wheel out of true again. I could do nothing to get the spoke back in.
Some out-of-town cyclist came by to offer a hand...he was training for an
Ironman event in Florida (we're in SC)...there was nothing he could do so
he
wished my a good walk home...I was looking at about 11 miles....not too
bad
but at 3 mph with a bike I was not looking forward to it. My buddy was
nowhere to be seen although he was to wait for me at a certain point on
the
route since he didn't know where we were going today beyond that
point...so
I released the rear brake and tried to ride with the wheel out of
true...it
all seemed to be working, so I made a U-turn in the middle of the road to
head for the meet point. But, alas, the rear wheel hung and --- what do
you
know --- bamn! I was on the friggin pavement again! This time I felt a
bit
defeated. So I just started hoofing it home. Luckily, after about 4
miles
a kindly old fellow and his wife stopped to ask how far of I walk I
had...I
told them 9 miles...I did the math wrong..it was only about 7 miles...but
anyway, the fellow was cyclist...81 years old...had a bike rack on his
other
car....so he went home and came back, hitched up my bike, and drove me
home....finally (after calling my riding buddies to see if he made it
back),
I hurried to the LBS where the hot lady (who sold me my bike) managed to
rush my bike back so I can get it back by 3pm (hopefully, that was nice of
her to try, huh?). I discovered that my left palm is all swollen, too.
Must
be from one of those falls....

Comments on how to avoid any more spills and what to do with a popped
spoke
and an untrued wheel on a ride would be much appreciated. Somehow, I feel
a
bit unsure if myself now....damn!



What a great post to read today. I just got clipless and shoes two days ago.
Yesterday, I rode to the end of my gravel drive (about two miles) and then
decided to try some slow speed u turns with the clipless to see how my
balance was. Bam! I went down on my left side. Being slow to learn, I tried
again and went down left again. The third try was different - I went down on
my right side! NO real damage, just twisted the seat around a bit, plus a
bit of skin loss on one knee and a nice bruise on one shoulder. It sure is a
long way down from on top of a bike seat (and enough time for some good
choice words during that helpless interval when you know you're going down
and know you can do nothing about it!)

Though slow to learn, I think I'll next practice slow u turns and track
stands with the clipless on the lawn, like the book I have suggests. Duh!

Anyway, today I did about twently pretty easy miles. The clipless seem to
let me go up hills in about two gears higher than I used to. I know what you
mean about accidentally clipping in. For now, I'm unclipping both feet at
any danger, and putting the pedal in my arch to avoid clipping back in
accidentally!

Question for clipless gurus: Does setting the clips up stiffer help avoid
unintended clip in? Also, the one place I seem to have a bit of trouble
unclipping is right at the top of the stroke. Any suggestions?

Roger Zoul wrote:

So Rolfs have a rep for racing, I take it...so going to a new wheel
means replacing the hub too, right? Geez...that sucks since I got
this bike in September. Obviously, having to hoof it home ain't
gonna work....and I do intend to keep riding...will a 28c tire fit on
my curent wheels?

You don't need a new wheel. Have the bike shop fix your current one, since
they sold it to you and it's (apparently) failing after very little use. (I
say apparently because you COULD have damaged this last broken spoke during
your falls.)

I suggest having them replace this spoke, TENSION AND STRESS-RELIEVE the
wheel after truing, and then if any more problems either replace it under
warranty or rebuild it from scratch.

Not sure about the 28 mm tire. Should work AFAIK, but I think you should
stick with 25s.

Bill "lucky with my road wheels so far; mtb wheels another story" S.

Roger Zoul wrote:
{Rick? wrote: Too lazy to go back and fix}

Your wheels were not properly tensioned and/or not stress relieved.
Helpful hot chick or not, your LBS is insufficient.

Yeah...I'm starting to get that....some other lady trued my wheel...I
remember spinning it and noting to her that it had a wobble...and she
could see that it was right radially, either. So she trued it
again....but she was so young...she probably doesn't truly understand
what needs to be done to properly repair a wheel (and neither do I
right at this moment, but I'm going find out!)

What, are you going to some jello-wrestling bike shop or something?!? Do
any MEN work there???

Bill "not jealous" S.